What is the Big Muff Pi classified as?

[H4T]

I've got an American-made Big Muff Pi and I'm not sure how "heavy" it is classified as. Seems stupid, I know, but I'm going to build an Axis Fuzz Face because I figured it'd be a little softer than the BMP. But I've heard the BMP called a fuzz pedal, and I've heard it called a distortion; I know fuzz pedals technically are distortion, but is the BMP more fuzz than distortion?

Is the BMP a "middle of the road" dist. pedal, as in, heavier than a Fuzz Face, but lighter than a distortion such as the Obsidian or Vulcan?

Here's what my BMP looks like. Btw, is this a Triangle BMP, or what? I haven't found out what version this is called.

[aron]

It's a fuzz pedal. Depending on the tone knob it's fuzzy or mellow or raspy or???

If yours is old, it looks like a 70's-80's version. If it's new, it's the NYC model (I believe).

All of them can be modded to sound cool if it's not at the moment.

[nelson]

The big muff is most certainly a fuzz pedal.

I think the scale of "overdrive-distortion-fuzz" is very limited in describing effects. Havign never built the obsidian I cant really comment, however I am going to comment anyway, I would guess that the obsidian had a "darker more metal" soudn to it.


The big muff is fuzzy in that it doesnt really have a "stereotypical distortion" soudn going on, it does fuzz, fuzz and fuzz.


looks liek a reissue big muff Pi if its not old.

Its not a "triangle muff" these are the very early ones with black knobs in a triangle as opposed to a straight line.

[H4T]

Yeah, the pedal I have is very new, about a year or so old, got it from Musicians Friend.

Would a Fuzz Face do the same thing as the BMP, or what? I know it will be better, because its a fuzz face, but will it basically do the same thing as the BMP?

I wouldn't mind safely modding my BMP a little, but the tone works very well for me, so I don't find anything wrong with it atm.

[amz-fx]

Fuzz?  Overdrive?  Distortion?

 -Jack

[H4T]

Heeeey, nice, lol.

However, some of what is said there seems exactly reverse of what I thought. I thought fuzz was the "least" and crunching was the "heaviest." Here's what the article said;

"However, in general terms I usually use them in the following order from mildest to the most heavy: crunch - overdrive - distortion - fuzz."

Another thing, is it pretty useless to build a Fuzz Face when I've got a BMP, or are they both very clearly different?

[amz-fx]

However, some of what is said there seems exactly reverse of what I thought. I thought fuzz was the "least" and crunching was the "heaviest."

Well, see, it is all a matter of individual perception on how the sound is categorized...  let you ears be your guide.

But the Big Muff has LOTS of distortion...

regards, Jack

[H4T]

Haha, ok, I'm gonna have to go to a guitar store and try out their pedals...though all they have are Boss pedals so I don't know about that.

I'm just trying to figure out if the BMP is considered heavy compared to the Fuzz Faces...which I think it must be.

[jimbob]

Musicians Friend Rocks (most the time anyways)...

[petemoore]

A fuzz Face is a Fuzz face is a Fuzz Face, 2 transistor, single gain stage.
 Sounds alot like a BMP, just like any dog with two eyes looks more alike than different than any other dog with two eyes.
 I never weighed in the pedals, I had a BMP Long long agofor a time, after fixing it...had to give it up...OUCH !!!
 It was a very easy fix, I'd much rather have been able to but the thing, seemed pretty light for the size of the box.
 A BMP Is: wheres; te good reads...
 A buncha gain stages, two of the get wave clipped ala diode across C/B of #'s 2 and 3 stages, buffer to make up for the passive loss in the TC, two volume type knobs [wired like a Volume pot], the first of which is called gain. Doesn't seem to 'care' as much what other pedals are in chain, does a 'Qua' upon pick attack, sustains pretty darn good too.
 FF doesn't likes it better when I use it without a buncha other stuff to load the SP like cables switches or something. Wont drive the wah, sounds funny without a BUffer in the wah input, was a long fun time to work with, as it is I'm planning on seeing about whappened to the last mod here inaminit. We had to turn of the FF"s, as we were testing some circuits through the Fender Frontman 25, to get rid of the various types of horrendousness es, O I forgot to bring the tube to throw on the Front end of the FF25, but decent results Were had with effects into tube into little LM386 amp.
 Read about FF at GEO or PM me about what your setup is and what you want it to do.
 As far as the BMP...to make a LSS, Ge diode over or replacing a diode in each clipping stage, both cathodes pointing the same way smoothed and helped me tweek my Green BMP Clone, for my guitar, amp and other stuff.

[bigjonny]

ROG has a heap of sound samples of their stuff.  The Whisker Biscuit is based on the Big Muff Pi, so you could compare that sound to your pedal, and then listen to the umpteen overdrive/fuzz samples they have.  A great resource to "let you ears be your guide", as Jack suggests.

[bioroids]

Listen to Pink Floyd albums :

before and included the dark side of the moon the distortion sound is a Fuzz Face, afterwards (the wall, animals) it's a BMP.

Obviously there are phasers and other stuff besides the distortion, but you can tell the difference in the main distorted sound I think.

Anyway I think for "regular" people (ie not guitar players) all sounds pretty much the same, be it a FF, a BMP, a TS or a Rangemaster into a loud Vox!  

Luck

Miguel

[R.G.]

Those of you who have read the Guitar Effects FAQ, vintage 1993, will recognize the following description in "Effects Terminology".
===============================================
What is the difference between "distortion" and "overdrive"? And "fuzz"?


   Effectively none. "Overdrive" started as what you got when you put too large a signal into the input of an amp, causing the signal to be distorted at the speaker. You were "overdriving" the inputs. "Distortion" is the more generic term, and started when folks noticed that you could get a distorted sound from a little solid state amp that was VERY nonlinear. The terms have been used so interchangeably that there is no real difference, although some people will swear that only tubes being overdriven sound good, etc. Let them insist. It won't hurt much either way.

   Boss and Ibanez seemed to define this difference with their pedals. The Boss OD-1 and Ibanez TS-9 Tube screamer "overdrives" are a smoother, less harsh sound than the DS-1 and SD-9 distortions.

   The distortion pedals add more crunchy, gritty sound, whereas the overdrives add more smoothness and not as much distorted crunch. An MXR "distortion plus" is the definitive distortion pedal from the 1970s.

   "Fuzz" seems to be an easier term to agree on a definition for. Pretty much everyone involved agrees that fuzz is a harder, harsher, and buzzier distortion than overdrive, and usually considered harder and harsher than "distortion" by itself. There is no real boundary on all this - it's just which words you want to use, no strict definitions.

[Mark Hammer]

It is not the only nor the best way to classify these things, but one can use two parameters: think of them in terms of the relationship between the signal and the threshold at which clipping starts to be something that happens to each and every wave-peak, and in terms of the degree of high-end content emphasis.

Things get often described as "crunch" when there is a decided additional bite to the initial attack.  Since that attack portion is the highest amplitude part of the signal, it is no surprise that it may produce some degree of clipping, however what follows immediately after may well be below any sort of clipping threshold, or at least generate clipping in the amounts produced by the initial attack.  The "crunch", then, is produced by clipping confined to a brief portion.  It adds character but clearly the rest of the note is very different.

"Overdrive" *can* be "crunch", but not always.  Just about everything that changes note character by adding extra harmonic content applies large amounts of gain, but what people call "overdrive" is often something that results in: a) some preservation of picking dynamics (i.e., slight compression effect as a consequence of clipping), b) *modest* high-end increase, though mostly lower-order harmonics, c) relatively consisten clipping introduced across a larger percentage of the note.  In general, what folks call "overdrive" is a much higher amplitude signal intended to produce additional harmonic content from a subsequent device, such as an amplifier.

In contrast, what gets classified as "fuzz" is generally something that results in a VERY consistent note amplitude across much of its lifespan, as a result of large amounts of gain being applied so that just about every wave-peak until the last dying gasps is above or very near clipping threshold.  The consequences of such heavy and persistent clipping are often left untampered with, such that "fuzz" pedals produce large amounts of higher harmonic content in addition to lower-order harmonics.  When looked at on a scope, the wave-peak will have a definite flat top to them.

What gets called "distortion" is perhaps the vaguest category.  Certainly everything discussed so far counts as a "distortion" pedal because it gains its quality by virtue of the harmonic distortion it produces.  Having said that, however, people are more likely to call something a distortion pedal if the additional harmonic content is more apparent.  The note does not have to achieve complete flat-top squaring from pick to decay to be a distortion pedal, so some such pedals will preserve a small amount of the original note's dynamics.

Okay, back to the original question: is a BMP a "fuzz"?  I'd say yes because of the use of double clipping stages so as to achieve a very constant degree of clipping across the duration of the note.  Certainly the harmonic content achieved may be filtered in the clipping stages in such a way as to sound less buzzy, and obviously turning the tone control to 7:00 will take most of the additional harmonic content away, but if one looked at it on a scope the peaks would be a pretty constant amplitude....hence, fuzz.  That's my view, and I'm sticking to it.  :lol:

[gez]

Reminds me of a recent TV documentary about Cliff Richard.  One of his musicians (might have been Bruce Welch of the Shadows actually) described the time when Cliff came in to the studio and saw a Big Muff on the floor.

Cliff: 'What a great name!  Hey guys, we could call the new album that!'
Bruce:  'Er, Cliff, let me explain something…'

He didn't understand what the lyrics of 'Hand Jive' were about either…snicker, snicker!

[jmusser]

What little bit I've been doing this (5 years) compared to many years for the most of you, I consider it to be overdrive, fuzz, distortion. The boosts and the overdrives are not to far away from each other, just like a fuzz and distortion aren't. To me when you're listening to something like the Whisker Biscuit, it has both. It has the sweet fuzz at the bassy end, and eventually falls out of the category on the upper end when it gets into the Bazz Fuzz area. To me a fuzz is either sweet or buzzy, but doesn't have harshness and growl to it. I think that's when you get into the realm of distortion. The BMP would be a thick sustaining fuzz. Something like the Buzz Box, Tychobrahe Octavia, Jordan Boss Tone, and Digital Octaver Fuzz, are distortions. The Boston sound is distortion, where Strawberry Alarm Clock, would be fuzz. On the Antiquity Fuzz and the 3 Legged Dog, they can go from either fuzz or overdrive depending on what pickup you're on, where as something like the Titan Boost will not fuzz in either position. It will give you more of an enhanced watery tone, transistioning to something close to overdrive. This is my thoughts though, and I doubt there is more of a subjective subject than this one! I may be dead wrong on my assumptions. Basically anything that is not good old fashioned high fidelity, IS distortion. It just has to do with how you want to define it.