Help with transferring PCB from photo paper :?

[bierdo70]

Just a quick question.

I tried this method on the weekend with some thick glossy photo-paper.
printed the pcb image onto it with a laser printer.
I cleaned my copper board with a scourer. Then taped the pcb printout onto the copper clad board with two bits of masking tape.
Then I used my iron turned to flatout with lots of pressure (probably for 2+minutes) to transfer the image to the board.

I then put it in soapy warm water for 20-30 mins.

The paper softened but I had a real hard time getting the paper off the board without pulling off the traces, and even when I had most of it off I still had white paper stuck on the board inbetween the traces!!

I thought this would be a bit easier from everyone's descriptions on here.

Anyway the transferred images are unusable, and I'm going to have to start from scratch again.

Am I doing something wrong??  

Can someone please help me here.

Cheers

Sean

[ninoman123]

Dont put it in water, Just peel it off after its done. And use the search function. This gets asked weekly I think.

[Dave G]

You can check a few things. Try a different brand of paper. That might fix everything up for you. Another thing to do would be try and find a hotter iron. If the iron is not hot enough, the toner tends to peel right off. This held me back for the longest time before I thought to try a different iron.

Also, I've never had much luck trying to remove the paper without soaking it first, but I don't doubt it may work differently for other types of photo paper.

[nosamiam]

Things you didn't mention that come to mind (you may already be doing them):

1)  Make sure you don't touch the printed portion of the photo paper with your bare hands or anything dirty or oily.

2)  Same with the copper.  The scouring takes off the top layer of copper and roughens the surface up some, but it leaves residue.  Use acetone (available at hardware stores) and a clean cotton ball and scrub.  Get a new cotton ball and do it again.  Repeat until the cotton ball shows no discoloration.  After that, don't touch the cleaned portion with your hands.

3)  The paper between the traces is your friend!  Use your thumbs and rub the soaked paper till it comes off.  It comes off in little rolls.  You can use a 3M (Scotchbrite) pad to LIGHTLY rub off whatever doesn't come off with thumb pressure.  When I say lightly, I mean say to yourself, "I don't want to do this all over again... I don't want to do this all over again..." as you're rubbing.  To tell you the truth, I don't even peel the paper up like I would backing paper on a decal.  I use the thumb rubbing exclusively.  It's pretty hard to pull the traces off if you're pushing them on.

4)  After you've succeede (which you know you will!) in getting the paper off and etching your soon-to-be finished board, you can use the acetone you purchased to remove the toner traces.  Voila! Beautiful!

[Michael Allen]

Here's mine, works every time.

Make sure your copper board is super clean. I clean it one way with steel wool until it is really shiny. Then wipe it down with acetone/rubbing alcohol/spirits/etc. Then i clean it the other way and wipe it down again. Then I clean it again the first way and wipe it down. Make sure you don't touch the board so that no oil gets on it.

Print out your pc design on glossy photo paper. I've used HP and Epson paper with no problems. Cut it out and DONT touch the transfer. You want as little contaminents on your pcboard and transfer as possible.

I don't tape mine down, I just line it up and heat one corner of the transfer. Then it sticks on. I cover the whole thing with a paper towl and press down for 30 seconds with high heat and pressure. Then i switch directions for 30 seconds and alternate for awhile. Then work you way down the board, side to side with the tip of the iron. Then work across with the end. Start at the top and press for 10 seconds. then move down a bit and press again for 10 seconds, and so on until you've covered the whole board.

It's all about enough heat and pressure. You don't want to much because a lot of movement will smear your toner around the board and you'll have to start over again.

I soak mine in water for 15 min or less sometimes. Occasionally the paper will already be peeling in the water. It comes off in one big strip with no paper left on the board.

Experiment with different heat and pressure routines.

[bierdo70]

Thakns guys.

I'll give it a go tonight with a couple of different types of paper.

I haven't used a solvent cleaner yet so this may be the problem, also the tip of the iron, seems like a good idea for max heat.

Thanks again.

Sean

[Mark Hammer]

Water soaking, or soaking of any kind, should not be necessary.  The whole approach relies on hot toner fusing with the copper.  Once the board is properly cooled off, one should be able to easily pull away the paper and the only part sticking to the board should be that with toner on it.

I personally recommend placing the paper-covered board up against a glass window for nice heat dissipation.  Patience also works well. :wink:

[Nasse]

Minor faults can be corrected with waterproof pen

And I think there is a limit how thin traces you can make with this method

[mojotron]

Here's mine, works every time.

Make sure your copper board is super clean. I clean it one way with steel wool until it is really shiny. Then wipe it down with acetone/rubbing alcohol/spirits/etc. Then i clean it the other way and wipe it down again. Then I clean it again the first way and wipe it down. Make sure you don't touch the board so that no oil gets on it.

Print out your pc design on glossy photo paper. I've used HP and Epson paper with no problems. Cut it out and DONT touch the transfer. You want as little contaminents on your pcboard and transfer as possible.

I don't tape mine down, I just line it up and heat one corner of the transfer. Then it sticks on. I cover the whole thing with a paper towl and press down for 30 seconds with high heat and pressure. Then i switch directions for 30 seconds and alternate for awhile. Then work you way down the board, side to side with the tip of the iron. Then work across with the end. Start at the top and press for 10 seconds. then move down a bit and press again for 10 seconds, and so on until you've covered the whole board.

It's all about enough heat and pressure. You don't want to much because a lot of movement will smear your toner around the board and you'll have to start over again.

I soak mine in water for 15 min or less sometimes. Occasionally the paper will already be peeling in the water. It comes off in one big strip with no paper left on the board.

Experiment with different heat and pressure routines.

I used the same method, except to prep the board I used 220grit wed/dry sand paper and lightly sanded the board from all 8 directions - then clean with acetone 3-5 times with cotton balls until the cotton ball was clean when brushed across the board. With some practice I got decent results with Staples Picture Paper, and some other picture papers.

However, about 6 months ago I tryed PNP Blue - followed the directions that came with the PNP - and instantly got my first perfect board. I made 5 more perfect boards that night in the same time it took to just do one board using picture paper. Since then, I have made a lot of boards, but I never went back to the picture paper method because PNP was just so much better/consistent.

The picture paper method is a valid way to go, but I encourage anyone to try PNP if they feel frustrated with the whole image transfer process.

I wish you the best, making my own boards has been a great asset for me!

[Michael Allen]

Check here, this is how i learned....

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Mojo, last night i threw together a red llama board. From printing the image, to cleaning the board, to drilling the board, took 30 min..... i etched with H2O2 + HCl mix

hella fast and cheap

[bierdo70]

Thanks for the help fellas.

I cleaned the board with acetone, and scoured it.
Before transferring the image.

worked first time this time,   .

I actually used semi-glossy "magazine style" paper this time, with print already on it. Only the laser printed image transferred to the board though.
This paper didn't glue itself to the copper like the glossy photo paper I used last time, hence it was easy to remove the paper leaving a great looking pcb image.

Thanks again

[TryingToDo613]

Mazeltov! Fun stuff huh. -ph

[ddes]

I actually used semi-glossy "magazine style" paper this time, with print already on it. Only the laser printed image transferred to the board though.
This paper didn't glue itself to the copper like the glossy photo paper I used last time, hence it was easy to remove the paper leaving a great looking pcb image.

Thanks again

Well, in my country they suggested to do that. I even haven't completed my first DIY project - but they said, that you could also use map pages from telephone books and pages from ELFA catalog(It's a big electronic company located in Sweden and the catalog has really thin paper kind a slippery surface). The ELFA catalog was supposed to peel off very easly too.

Soon - Soon I'm going to try to make boards for Ruby, MXR Dist+ and Tube Reamer using photo paper (on saturday I think).
I'm going to make a full report - hopefully with some pics
 

[TryingToDo613]

Just an addition note to the more experienced people here. I had three sheets of high grade paper come in my pack from wallmart of jetprint. What a nightmare. Sticks to the iron, the board, yuk. Could be what he ran into here. -ph