EH Echoflanger layout finished, Layout inside.

[nelson]

How about these?
http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/Leaf/SW_rotary_a.pdf

Factory and sales locations found here.
http://www.ittcannon.com/support/dealers.asp?sortKey=1&typeID=1&Country=USA&StateID=AL&Category=&Submit=Search

Nope, I am looking for a rotary switch that doesnt have any central poles.



sort of like this


                       _  _
                     _       _
                   _           _
                   _*____* _
                    _         _
                        _  _

The line with asterixes next to it is how the contacts join. Each turn changes the two lugs that are connected. Atleast i think thats how it should be, the way the switch is drawn in the original schem is confusing.

help....


EDIT damnit! well that didnt work!

[nelson]

ok that is the switch. From the layout pictured at the start of the thread.

Anyone have any ideas?

[moosapotamus]

Can you tell how the switch is supposed to work? Couldn't you re-do the traces on the PCB to make the switching work with one of the standard Lorlin switches?

~ Charlie

[toneman]

I'm with Moose on this.
4PDT is what's used on the McMeat/Meatball.
those Lorin SWs should work fine,
Just move a few pads around on the pcb.
easy.

Tone

[petemoore]

I'm about ready for a seriously advanced project just like this...I'm certain I'd love having an EchoFlanger...

[dj_death]

In my opinion,

-In the LFO the 2M pot can be replaced with a 1M by changing also the 50uF caps with 100uF. There will be no change at all.
-The 46.4K, 1.82K can be changed to more common values like 47K and 1.8K without any practical difference.
-The Ic8A section of the LFO is just a voltage amplifier, R50 controls the gain. So by using a 2K or 2.2K will give you a bigger pulse(more width in LFO) than the 3K. So R50 should be 2K i think.
-At IC3A the resistor that connects to V2 looks in the schematic as a 68K. In the real photo of the board this resistor looks 100K judging by the colour code. It's the first resistor at the bottom left of the photo. I think that this value shouldn't cause any problem.

I hope i helped you a little. I would be happy if i could help you building this monster.

John

[nelson]

Pm sent DJdeath


To be honest the way the switch is drawn in the factory schem I am not entirely sure what sort of switch it is......

I reckon DP4T.

I had the idea to just solder a jumper, or add a trace between the 2 center lugs of the DP4T and then it should work as i think it is stating in the schem much like what moose and toneman suggest.

What do you guys think?

[dj_death]

I think that i found how S2 works.



1.When FILTER MATRIX is selected pins 1 and 2 are connected to ground.
2.When FLANGE is selected pins 3 and 4 are connected both to ground.
3.When CHORUS is selected pins 5 and 6 are connected both to ground.
4.When SLAPBACK is selected pins 7 and 8 are connected both to ground.

If you take a look at the schematic and imagine which pins of the 4053s are connected in each position of the S2 you'll see that my thinking is correct.

1. Filter matrix : -R44 is floating, so there is "1" at pin 10 of IC7.So  IC7's   pins 1 and 15 are connected(LFO is bypassed).

           -R46 is grounded, so there is "0" at pin 9  of IC7 and pins 9,11 of Ic6.So IC7's pins 4 and 5 are connected, IC6's pins 4 and 5 are connected and IC6's pins 14 and 12 are connected. (the first SAD1024 is bypassed   and the filter that is formed by IC5B 4558,too.)

2. FLANGE        : -R44 is grounded, so there is "0" at pin 10 of IC7.So IC7's pins 2 and 15 are connected(LFO is full functional).
                       
                       -R46 is grounded, so there is "0" at pin 9  of IC7 and pins 9,11 of Ic6. So IC7's pins 4 and 5 are connected, IC6's pins 4 and 5 are connected and IC6's pins 14 and 12 are connected. (the first SAD1024 is bypassed   so there is half of the delay and the filter that is formed by    IC5B 4558 is bypassed, too.)

3. Chorus        : -R44 is grounded, so there is "0" at pin 10 of IC7.So IC7's pins 2 and    15 are connected(LFO is full functional).
                 -R46 is floating, so there is "1" at pin 9  of IC7 and pins 9,11 of Ic6. So IC7's pins 4 and 3 are connected, IC6's pins 4 and 3 are connected and IC6's pins 14 and 13 are connected. (Now there is full delay and the signal flows through the filter that is formed by IC5B 4558)

4. SLAPBACK      : -R44 is floating, so there is "1" at pin 10 of IC7.So IC7's pins 1 and 15 are connected(LFO is bypassed).
              -R46 is floating, so there is "1" at pin 9  of IC7 and pins 9,11 of Ic6. So IC7's pins 4 and 3 are connected, IC6's pins 4 and 3 are connected and IC6's pins 14 and 13 are connected. (Now there is full delay and the signal flows through the filter that is formed by IC5B 4558).
This looks correct when talking for delay.

         
I think that a normal rotary 4DPT switch can be used if it's wired like this.



What do you think guys?

John

[dj_death]

Of course i'm not 100% sure :roll:

[Maneco]

it's correct,but in the rotary switch drawing,the even pins are reversed,pin 2 is in the oposed side ,diametrically oposed to pin one,and so on...

[nelson]

that looks good to me!


I am going to update the layout to fit a lorlin pcb mount  4PDT rotary switch with the poles going to ground.

I was hoping that the polychorus (that all things going well I will have soon) would shed some light on the switching. Being that it is the same circuit.

Thanks for figuring this out DJdeath.

[moosapotamus]

Yeah, that's how I would interpret the scheme, too... Connect the two center poles together with a trace that goes to ground.

The layout for that switch still looks a little confusing to me, tho. I'm assuming that the two lugs with green traces connected to them are the two poles, yes/no? Then, there are actually five pads (throws) that could be associated with each of the poles. So, two of those poles are not being used in the switching, but are being used just as pads that connect to other nearby components, I guess?

I think the Lorlin rotary switches that I'm familiar with work a little differently than how John described, and more like Maneco's description. They are affordable and pretty easy to find, too. They usually have 12 throws and can be adjusted to work as anything from a two-position (DPDT) up to a six-position (DP6T) switch. There is a washer with a little locking pin that you put in to set the number of switch positions that you need. In this case, you'd set it for four positions.

For the Lorlin type switch, I would number the scheme like this...


The PCB layout for the Lorlin would look something like this...


I think that's the idea. But, I'm not 100% either. So, please verify before you etch.

~ Charlie

[nelson]

Thanks guys.

I think we have it sussed.

I will verify it by removing the switch from the polychorus and grounding certain pads.

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/LN-800005.pdf

Lorlin Double pole 2-4 position switch from mouser, $3.17.

i think I will update the layout, i am fairly confident in DJdeaths thinking and moosapotamus'.

Will post it when done.

[mongo]

Anyone interested in the full updated document including Press n peel graphic?

Me!! please please please!!!  :-D

Andy

[nelson]

Here is the layout.

it is NOT verified, the schem is not even half drawn, consult the factory schem in the meantime. i havent even written up a parts list for it yet.


please post any comments suggestions for mods etc here.

Feel free to email me with them too.

Enjoy everyone.


http://www.auaj24.dsl.pipex.com/EHEchoflanger.pdf


Paul Nelson

[ragtime8922]

Thank you. Awesome work!

[dj_death]

I'm very happy i helped a little in this project.
Charlie i drew this switch having in mind the rotary switch that you have just described. I already use exactly this switch in some of my pedals, i just ignored the unused pins and gave random numbers to the S2 pins on the schematic.

I think i will give it a try soon, but i see that it will be very difficult for me to find these 1% extra accuracy resistors. I'll try using normal resistor everywhere i can.

Paul in the pdf you state that "2M ccw log can be made from 5m linear with tapering resistors". You mean we need pot surgery for this?

[TheBigMan]

Wow, that's a pretty crazy project to be DIYing.  And you said I was daft for using tiny enclosures.  :wink:

BTW Maplin have a selection of rotary switches which are cheaper than Digikey, at least for us UK guys.  If I'm reading this right you need a DP4T, and they have 3P4Ts like the Meatball, Big Cheese etc uses.

[nelson]

Paul in the pdf you state that "2M ccw log can be made from 5m linear with tapering resistors". You mean we need pot surgery for this?

No need to open pots up or anything, if you go to analog alchemy from the DIYstompboxes homepage and to Electronics math helper, it has a little calculator for making log or rev log taper pots out of larger linear ones. It wont be absolutely perfect but without a rev log 2M pot available or even a log 2m pot to wire in reverse it is the only way to get close to the taper that I can think of. The rev log 100K can also be made out of a 500K linear pot with tapering resistors.
You can get alpha 5m linear 24mm pots from mouser and other places, steve @ smallbear will order them from mouser for you if you dont want to deal with mouser.

No "pot surgery" involved.

Thanks for the compliments Andrew, The transistors arrived this morning, Thanks! I thought you had sent me electrolytic caps by mistake for about 30 seconds  :lol:



I am almost finished redrawing the schem. Will let you guys know when I update the project.

What enclosure are you guys thinking of putting this in? its a big board.

[britt-stinker]

Hey Its nice to see you have comed this long now.

On the updated version, you mension volume increasing when made truebypass, if you are thinking on my problem. Then it was the other way around. When it wasn't truebypass there was a volume boost, when it was truebypassed it suffered volume loss.

Hope you got it wright this time