Tube saturation vs pedal drive

[Stevo]

I have two setups I play. One in the garage with a Crate 15 watt tube with a 2-12 cab ...I use this for my pedals and when I am in the workshop.. I have another setup with a Mesa F-30 and a pedal board no distortion pedals.. I havent played the F-30 in a month cause I enjoy homemade stuff!!  I did tonight forgot how deep sounding a full tube saturation distortion sounds.. Now some dont like the Mesa but the amp dynamics are different to say...It seems to feedback in a more predictable way than with the tube amp in the garage and pedals...Seems fuller sounding yet they both have there place with me...I like the Crate driven with a overdrive has a little more shrills to it!! I really am pulled between these two sounds...there are other amps with the tube distortion channel..only thing is it is fun to play a homemade pedal than something else but I have to say the Mesa sound is quite enjoyable.....I guess if you are a DIYER pedal stomper for distortion you need a clean to semi clean tube amp to play your pedals..This gets deeper than there is my 15 watt solid state I use with headphones in the shop for the wife (she cant stand the loud amps)............I have collected these things over many years and you kind of wish you really had one pedal one amp one guitar but there is so much sound to explore....WHAT TO DO

[brett]

Hi

I guess if you are a DIYER pedal stomper for distortion you need a clean to semi clean tube amp to play your pedals

I used to think this, too.  But I've recently built a Marshall 18 watter (a very dirty amp), and really enjoy the various combinations:
amp distortion alone (mostly output stage distortion)
pedal distortion plus usual amp distortion
pedal distortion plus pedal driving amp input into distortion (giving pedal + input + output distortion)

Two pedals that seem to really work are simple boosters (such as the stratoblaster) and tubescreamer/bluesbreaker pedals.

cheers

[mac]

( Many readers will like to shoot me in the head after reading this... )

I used to think that nothing sounds like a tube amp... I was terrible wrong. There are some good, and expensive, solid state amps that used in combination with the right pedal sound as good as a tube amp.
See the reviews of the Jazz Chorus or the Bluetones at Harmony Central to name a few, or better, go to a music shop and hear them.
There are a lot a famous songs that were recorded with a pedal + SS amp. Of course, SS amp distortion sucks in most of the cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love jcm900s and twins, but some SS amps are very good. A TS808 driving a valve amp sounds fantastic, but a sansamp throu a clean jc77 sounds good also.
So the answer to this topic is very subjective. I guess that it depends on the sound you want for that song you wrote. Keeping an open mind and exploring all combinations is the best way to go.

mac

[Stevo]

You bring up a good point..Tube screamer(made for tubes).....Tube sound Fuzz (made for SS amp).. I do agree with the theory some pedals are made for specific amps...

[bwanasonic]

There are some good, and expensive, solid state amps that used in combination with the right pedal sound as good as a tube amp.

But I have yet to find a pedal/ solid-state setup that feels like a tube amp. Especially at stage volumes. Sure, I can plug the sansamp into a SS amp , and people will come up and say "sounds great, man". But the *contact patch* , the moment of attack, the transition from clean to dirty, never feels right to me without tubes. Believe me, I've tried like hell. I can have a good old time playing direct into Garage Band with some plugins, or just my trusty GT2 into a Peavey SS practice amp. But it never feels as much like a musical instrument or inpsires me as much as tubes do when I'm really trying to sound like *me*. I love the JC120, but I'd never pick it as my only amp if I were playing my own music. If I were just playing covers, and just needed to sound *close enough*, I'm sure I could settle for a SS setup. But when I'm trying to achieve the highest level of expression of what's in my head, I need a handful of *firebottles*, some big hunks of metal with lots of wire wrapped around them, and a box full of paper cones and magnets, with a microphone pointed at the whole mess. This makes the people I'm playing with think I'm a crazy masochist, as they think I sound fine with just my GT2 into the board.

Make music with whatever you have

Kerry M

[gtrmac]

I agree with Kerry M. In the final mix I can make my H&K Tubeman with some FX boxes sound like a very convincing emulation of a Marshall amp, but it's hard to get excited about the tone while I'm recording the track. I made a Marshall 18 and a Tweed Deluxe but I only get to hear them at gigs mostly. Recording at home I use the Tubeman since I usually work late at night. I crank up the amps once in a while for a lead track. I have a pretty decent studio at home with drums and amps, but recording direct is a necessity for the late night stuff.

I know this sounds condescending but I think if you are happy with a SS amp you probably never played through a good tube amp in a good room.

Or else you're a 'gasp' Jazz Guitarist

[Steben]

Well, it brings us back to the digital vs tube discussion.

An expensive "excellent" SS amp probably has some digital emulation of the tube amps abilities. It's common knowledge that the most "recent" of those amps tend to "respond" quite good as well. But I doubt the major advantage of the classic SS amp is its price, which those digital bastards do not share.
Best Digital vs Tube is the same as versatility vs esthetics. But they are both high class high price.
I guess a 5 or 18 Watt DIY Tube amp is even better price though.

[WGTP]

For tube like "whatever you want to call it" squish or smoosh or compression or Joe Davidison's Vulcan distortions are the best I have found.   

[phaeton]

I think they (ss and tube) both have their place.  I have a 5/15W 6V6 tube amp and a 45W SS amp.  I want to pick up one of those EL34 Epiphone Valve Juniors just for kicks- the little 5W one with nothing but a volume knob on it.  I would like to build a Marshall 18 someday, and/or a few others.  I've had a lot of fun building little trashy SS amps from 1/2W on up to about 15 Watts.  I wish there was a market for them- not because I'd expect to get rich, but only to perhaps justify all the ones i've built and give me a reason to keep building them 

Right now I really dig my 6V6- it can really do some awesome sounds (at less than deadly volume levels, no less), but there are some that it just won't do- specifically the high-gain over the top, highly-focused metal sounds, and for that the crappy ole SS Peavey Pacer 100 comes out of the closet and owns the day with some help from the Tubescreamer.

I plan on eventually putting a tubescreamer and a copy of my Peavey's preamp in a box someday, in hopes to preserve my "early thrash sound" just in case.  Maybe then I can coax the tubes to sound like crap SS    It'll be hideous and I guarantee most of you won't like it.

Too bad.