More schematics; anyone has the Juggernaut or the ODB-3??

[Bernardduur]

Hi all,

Just browsing around for some more "bass pedal understanding" in my neverending search for "the best" bass pedal for OD, distortion or fuzz. Does anyone have the schematic of the ProCo Juggernaut (as used by Larry Graham) or the Boss ODB-3???

Thanks!

[Bernardduur]

No-one?? I thought the Juggernaut will be a version of the all known Rat but there is some difference between the tones of the two...

[tommy.genes]

Not terribly helpful, but I wanted to give this topic a bump.

I was really interested in the Juggernaut when it was announced, but all the reviews I've read on it have been really bad. I've been keeping my eyes open for mention of a schem to see if it could be modded to meet its full potential, but maybe we'd just be trying to polish the proverbial turd.

-- T. G. --

[Steben]

Let's turn it the other way around:

What should a best Bass OD/fuzz pedal do? What makes a bass pedal better than another one?

[tommy.genes]

Let's turn it the other way around:
What should a best Bass OD/fuzz pedal do? What makes a bass pedal better than another one?

Let my try to answer this...

First off, my interest is in a bass OD, not a fuzz. I actually think decent bass fuzz circuits are relatively common - or at least as common as bass specific circuits can be. Now I define fuzz as being highly compressed with fairly uniform harmonic content, more like a square or sawtooth wave from a synth, and I find that this sound has its definite uses. From what I've seen this is most often achieved through diode clipping.

To differentiate from fuzz, I think of overdrive as having decidedly un-compressed and dynamic harmonic content. To make an analogy, if a clean sound is a smooth floor, fuzz is thick shag carpeting but heavy overdrive is a surface of sharp jagged stones.

I have a few points of reference. First, I have a factory Fulltone Bassdrive. I prefer its sound in comp-cut mode which, if I understand correctly, bypasses the clipping diodes and relies on opamp clipping for generating harmonics. This would seem to support my theories above. My main "complaints" about the Bassdrive (fully noting that it is a great pedal) are 1) it does low and mid gain sounds well, but doesn't get into high-gain territory without switching in the clipping diodes, and 2) the tone control seems to be only a high-cut circuit, and a bass-boost circuit would be helpful (more on this in the next paragraph).

My 2nd point of reference is a circuit I recently breadboarded and am now starting to build. It is a tweaked Bazz Fuss with a tweaked BMP tone control grafted on. The harmonic character is definitely fuzz per my above definitions, but it was extremely illustrative as to how much EQ can contribute towards finding my ideal overdrive sound.

So now I just need to find my ideal harmonic-generation circuit and graft on my tweaked BMP tone control and/or a blend circuit and I should be set. I still plan to breadboard a number of different circuit types one-by-one, but I'm grateful for and hopeful that this and other "bass overdrive" threads will both reduce the number of different things I have to try while also introducing new ideas I didn't know about.

To summarize - and to answer the original question, my ideal bass OD requirements are:

1) Uncompressed and dynamic harmonic generation with a wide range of gain settings, possibly including multiple gain stages and hopefully avoiding clipping diodes.

2) A BMP or other bass-boosting tone circuit and/or the option to mix in dry bass signal to prevent that feeling of "the bottom just dropped" out when it is switched on.

Phew, this has turned into a Mark-Hammer-length post. 

-- T. G. --

[Steben]

Maybe a bluesbreaker (yes diodes, but wait...) with a blend control (dry clean signal) can give some dynamic advantage. Maybe extra resistors in series with feedback diodes can smooth things a bit out. Certainly worth a try.

[Bernardduur]

Wow...... there is a second me



Right now I am working on a EHX Hot Tubes. I'll post the findings as soon as possible.

[tommy.genes]

Steben - I'll look into the Bluesbreaker since it seems to be fairly often discussed in the forum. Or else I'll try some of your suggested mods on another TS-type circuit since they look similar.

Perhaps I should breadboard a Bassdrive/TS-type circuit to use as a modding testbed so that I'm not experimenting on my somewhat-pricey original.

Bernardduur - Yeah, I had noticed our similar quests a little while ago. On the Hot Tubes, are you actually using tubes or substituting FETs? Please do let us know your results.

I'll post a build report on that Bazz Fuss inna Pickle thingy, with clips and pics, after I get it built - maybe in a few days/weeks.

-- T. G. --

[puretube]

err, only E-H & me use real (pure) tubes in a "Hot Tubes"... 

Bernard is talking about a CMOS-inverter based distortion. 

[Bernardduur]

Yep!!! I'm not that good (yet) to work with tubes

I can recommend modding a bassdrive. I've encountered some "minor" points on it's design... Oh, and the MOSFET clipping sounds awesome on bass BTW!

Tommy, looking forward of seeing your Bazz Fuss version; still need a good and decent fuzz on bass!

[Bernardduur]

Wow.......

I've just tried the Hot Tubes on bass

Wow.......



It is a really good OD unit; when you turn the distortion up a bit too much it turns a bit into a Fuzz unit (good, not super) but before is a very good OD sound..... Bo compression due to clipping diodes, just plain boost with a good OD tone over it.

This one is a keeper. I am building it into my Fulldrive II so I can choose wich one I want to use.


Wow........

[A.S.P.]

BASS - TUBES

HOT - BASS

[Bernardduur]