Increasing output on Shin-ei?

[Wild Zebra]

  Howdy,
  I been searching here for a little, but haven't exactly found an answer.  So maybe someone can help.
Built the Shin ei using Dragonfly's layout (thanks).  Used some 2n3904's I had laying around.  Pretty wicked
sounding fuzz.  Well, the effect output is not much louder or about even from the bypass.  Is this normal.
Would like it to have a little more output.  I went over my work a few times and everything looks right, but looks
can be deceiving. 

Thanks.

[MartyMart]

I got the same result from my own vero version !
perhaps it's always like that, it is a bit above bypass
volume though
Marty.

[Mark Hammer]

Nah.  The Shin-Ei FY-2 is one hot little potato.  You should be getting a huge output level, relative to bypass.

[Wild Zebra]

Nah.  The Shin-Ei FY-2 is one hot little potato.  You should be getting a huge output level, relative to bypass.

So any suggestions?  I'll go over it again tonight, but I'm almost possitive I stayed to spec.  Except for the trannies.  What trannies
did you use Martymart?  Overall I can deal with it, but it'd be nice to get some db's.

[chaddhamilton]

I just built one last week with the same results; ouput is just a little below bipass.  Mark, didn't you mod yours?

[Mark Hammer]

The only change I did was to flip two leads around for the Fuzz control.  While that changed the range of sounds possible, it had no impact that I remember on output level. I suppose what I could do is record a brief sample of full fuzz vs bypass, so you could compare.

[MartyMart]

Checked and mine is dragonfly's version !
Used 100k trimmer and Ge NPN trannies
otherwise it's exact !!
I'll check it over when I can, and I did Marks mods also.
It's not VERY quiet, but not enough to call it a boost !

MM.

[chaddhamilton]

yeah mine is the dragonfly version as well.  I'd love to hear someone elses fuzz for comparison.  Sometime ago I read a review(maybe an item description on ebay) on a FY2 that mentioned the volume drop too... 

[Wild Zebra]

   Well its good to hear y'all are getting the same results.   Except for we'd all like a little more output.  And I'd like to give a big thanks to dragonfly I ain't bitchin or dissin his layout.  It just seems like the kind of effect that when you hit the switch it should tear the paint off your walls.  Know what I'm saying.  Well I'm out of work for the weekend.  Take care and maybe we'll get this figured out. 

[Dragonfly]

try.....

higher hfe trannies, such as 2n5088, 2n5089, bc109c, etc

higher value output pot, such as 100k, 250k, or 500k....


there might help a bit....

andy

[Yun]

or, to make a higher level (or volume) replace the volume control with a 1Meg pot.  Since i use marshalls- i automatically use 1 meg pots in all of my builds.  Needless to say, there's never any "volume loss" . 

EDIT:     Just read mr.dragon fly's post 

[MartyMart]

try.....
higher hfe trannies, such as 2n5088, 2n5089, bc109c, etc
higher value output pot, such as 100k, 250k, or 500k....
andy

YES  !
I had quite low gain NPN's in there, ( Ge 120 hfe ) the "tone" was nice but with
2N4401 and a 2N5089 it's at least double the output !
I don't need a bigger vol pot now, thanks Andy, I don't know what
I was thinking, perhaps I was still "trying" things out and just forgot
about it
Layout works 100%

MM.

[Dragonfly]

try.....
higher hfe trannies, such as 2n5088, 2n5089, bc109c, etc
higher value output pot, such as 100k, 250k, or 500k....
andy

YES  !
I had quite low gain NPN's in there, ( Ge 120 hfe ) the "tone" was nice but with
2N4401 and a 2N5089 it's at least double the output !
I don't need a bigger vol pot now, thanks Andy, I don't know what
I was thinking, perhaps I was still "trying" things out and just forgot
about it
Layout works 100%

MM.

sometimes the simplest solutions are the things we overlook !

glad its working...now i guess i'll have to build one       i'll probably try bc108b's, bc109c's, 2n5089's, and 2n4401's....once i find time to build it, i'll post a report !

andy

[Dragonfly]

or, to make a higher level (or volume) replace the volume control with a 1Meg pot.  Since i use marshalls- i automatically use 1 meg pots in all of my builds.  Needless to say, there's never any "volume loss" . 

EDIT:   :icon_redface:  Just read mr.dragon fly's post 

i think we've "all" posted an answer and then realized we'd been "beaten to the punch" before

rock on !

[jmusser]

I believe I started out with 2N3904s, but eventually went to the OC140 germaniums. I always had plenty of output. In fact, it was down right loud! I went to the OC140s, just for the tone.

[Wild Zebra]

  Forgot to check it out this weekend.  Pretty sure I got some 5088's.  Sounds like that'll do the trick.  Welp thanks
for all the answers.

sometimes the simplest solutions are the things we overlook !