AVR Dragon?

[DaveTV]

Is anybody using an AVR Dragon for programming? I was just about to order an STK500 when I noticed that the AVR Dragon might be a suitable option as well. I like that the AVR Dragon both connects to the computer and can be powered by USB, which is convenient for use with a laptop (and would likely increase the chances of my actually using it). I'm only just getting started with microcontrollers and was wondering if there are any major limitations with the AVR Dragon that would make it unsuitable for a beginner.

[The Tone God]

I have a Dragon and a STK500. They are different devices for different jobs.

Lets talk about what they have in common first. They both are programmers. They can program in ISP, PP, and HV modes. Now for the differences.

The STK500 is a development platform. It has sockets for almost all the DIP size packages. There are expander boards for other packages. It has other hardware on board like power supplies, RS232, external clock, headers, switches, LEDs, memory, etc. It also comes ready to go with cables, software, and paper work. It still needs a external adaptor that you buy separately. The idea is that you can put the uC in the board and do your testing on it.

There is rumour of a newer STK500 coming called the STK500X that will probably run off of USB as well but that maybe be a ways off.

The Dragon is debugger. It can do In Circuit Emulation which allows for a great amount of control and ease when developing a project. You use the actual uC in the circuit hooked up with certain limitations. Development time can be decreased enormously. The downsides are that it only works on a handful of uCs at the moment. It will never support uCs with more the 32K memory. It comes with NOTHING. You just get the board with two headers soldered, power and JTAG. You have to solder you own headers and sockets. You have to buy your own USB cable and jumpers. You even have to put your own feet on the board.

You have to figure out what you will be doing to decided which one fits your needs.

Andrew

[DaveTV]

Thanks for the info, Andrew. Since I'm just beginning to work with microcontrollers, it's difficult to know what I need. I'll probably go with the STK500, since it seems well-suited for learning.

[Dave_B]

This is a late reply, but for me, the STK500 wasn't a great choice.  It's a good deal, but I end up making boards for the AVR things I'm working on anyway, so the only "feature" I use is the ISP (programming) header. 

Now that I have a Dragon with the convenience of USB and debugWire, the STK500 may not get used a lot. 

[The Tone God]

I use my Dragon now about 80% of the time. I use it mostly for debugging then programming. Probably the high level of use is due to my habit of having one or two of each of my preferred AVRs already configured for debugging so all I have to do is drop one in a board, wire up the circuit, then connect a couple of wires from the Dragon and I'm ready to go. This is verses having to wire up the STK500 for the AVR and jumping between the board and STK500 for each programming cycle.

I still use my STK500 mainly for ISP and HV programming. I usually keep it wired for HV programming. Having to configure the Dragon for HV then reconfigure to go into debugging is annoying. Also if I need to use all the pins on smaller AVRs I might not be able to use debugging or ISP so its HV.

One thing I plan on doing is making some boards with headers that match the Dragon header that are pre-wired for my preferred AVRs that way I just drop in the board for what I am doing and not screw around with jumpers.

Andrew

[RaceDriver205]

Or! <shock, horror!> One could use a simple DIY programmer: tothemax.web1000.com
Yeah, I know Andrew, I know 

[Dave_B]

Or! <shock, horror!> One could use a simple DIY programmer

I did that when I was learning to use PICs.  Mine stopped working after awhile, but it was an unpowered serial port version.  For me, the issue slowly became software integration.  Using a single program to code and burn the chip didn't sound like a big deal at first, but it was a hassle compared to the way I'm doing it now.

In case I wasn't clear, I use my stk500 for ISP programming.  I plug the 6-pin header to the stk500 and the other end to my board.  I've not done HV programming since moving to AVR... yet.

[The Tone God]

In case I wasn't clear, I use my stk500 for ISP programming.  I plug the 6-pin header to the stk500 and the other end to my board.  I've not done HV programming since moving to AVR... yet.

Actually that is one thing I really love about the STK500. Once you get out of the 8 pin AVRs all you usually need to wire up to get going is the ISP header. One ribbon cable. Sometimes when I need another model AVR for a quick program but I don't want to rewire my Dragon I just slap it into the STK500 and ISP it.

I have a AVRISP when I need portable ISP but I also bought a nice long USB cable for my Dragon in case I have to debug a project that is large and distant from the computer.

Andrew