Is Ibanez TS808 PR a bunch of baloney?

[TryingToDo613]

Hi guys. Haven't been around for a while and trying to make some time for building amps and pedals again. I just ran accross this on the ibanez website: http://www.ibanez.com/accessories/spec.asp?m=94

Quote;
banez offers the TS9 reissue and the TS808 limited production reissue. So which one is best for you?

The reissue of the TS9 in 1993 and the reissue of the TS808 in 2004 mean that players don't have to plunk down the vast quantities of cash that the originals have been known to fetch. Although neither of the reissues is cheap, players can get the original Tube Screamer specs and tones without breaking the bank.

For collectors who are also players, the reissues mean that they don't have the tough choice of either subjecting their beloved original Tube Screamers to the dangers of contemporary gigging or leaving those great tones at home.

So what's the difference between the TS9 and the TS808? For one, the TS9 reissue is less expensive than the TS808 and for two, they sound somewhat different. Why?

On paper, the original TS9 (circa 1981-84) was supposed to feature a JRC4558 chip. But in practice, that's not what happened. Most TS9's ended up being loaded with the more "high-fidelity" TA75558 chip. Which is why, for historical and tonal accuracy, the TS9 reissue features the TA75558 chip.

The TS808 (circa 1979-80), on the other hand, was spec'd with the JRC4558 chip, and that's what most of the original TS808s did feature and that's what the reissue features.

Players who prefer and cleaner, clearer sound tend to prefer the TS9 with its "high fidelity" TA75558 chip. Players who prefer a warmer sound tend to prefer the TS808.

However, to get the warm sound of the original TS808s, Ibanez can't use just any currently manufactured JRC4558. In over two decades since the original TS808's were made, the manufacturer has made improvements in consistency, electrical characteristics and fidelity of the JRC4558. Unfortunately, those aren't necessarily "improvements" when your goal is vintage distortion. (And don't let anyone tell you that a "chip is a chip is a chip." Chips vary from country to country, factory to factory and even foundry to foundry within a factory.)

The result is that present-day chips are different than those of the "good old days." However, we discovered that we can pick out a small quantity from current lots of JRC4558 chips that match our vintage TS808 spec, if we measure them one-by-one to find those with the desired characteristics. This careful and labor intensive selection process limits the production of the TS808 and increases its cost (as does its famous old square footswitch, which had to be completely recreated in order to make for an accurate reissue).

Now that you know some of the differences, the choice comes down to your ear and your budget-and if budget is the major concern, don't despair. You can also opt for the very affordable TS7 Tone-Lok Tubescreamer, which features a JRC4558 chip using automated circuit board construction, instead of the TS9's and TS808's more labor-intensive hand-wiring.

The story of the Tube Screamer reissue is featured in the book, Ibanez - The Untold Story. Coming soon!

Quote;

Is it true? Anyone know how to test the opamps and what the specs would theoretically be? I haven't seen a huge difference in the ones I have, even with slightly different lettering on them. Methinks it's a bunch of baloney.
-ph

[Melanhead]

hmmmm ... mostly hype, I have a reissue and modded it anyways, too thin for me!  ... I'm not a big fan of the TS series stock. 

[Apehouse]

one of the greats (R.G. Keen) has broken down the tube screamer for us at :
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

if you're getting into building pedals i suggest you read everthing else you can find at his site while you're there!
-greg

[Ge_Whiz]

What you have to recognize here is that Ibanez are offering you a choice between rich, vintage mojo compared with cheap, contemporary mojo. 

[twabelljr]

    Sounds like they are selling the mojo to me. Wasn't the original spec'ed to have a 4558, not necessarily a JRC4558? They could have re-issued with the RC4558 which still would have some historical accuracy, and be more cost efficient. Also, same factory etc. Yeah, baloney.

[Mark Hammer]

At the make-up counter, all the different sub-versions of the same corner of the red or pink spectrum are separated by other colours.  The reason they do this is that if all those subshades were lined up beside each other, the small differences that really exist would be REALLY hard for the customer to differentiate.  That doesn't mean the shades are *not* different.  They are.  But it's not as if it would be a real meaningful difference once you splatter it over the undershade of skin colour.  A spectrometer could tell, but the naked hman eye would be hard-pressed.

Large pedal manufacturers can't do exactly what makeup companies do but since they have the same sort of substantial investment in their bloated product line that makeup companies do, they have to do *something* to exaggerate the differences, since the naked human ear will not always be able to hear them.  Instead of lining up pedals in a way that exaggerates differences, they use ad copy to do it.

It's not total BS, but the differences they describe are partly what consumers tell the manufacturer or their friends that THEY hear, and some of that is pure expectations as much as technical differences.

[Guitar Toad]

Are the chips in all TS's socket mounted making the change fairly simple? Do most manufacturers socket mount their transistors/opamps?

[johngreene]

At the make-up counter, all the different sub-versions of the same corner of the red or pink spectrum are separated by other colours.  The reason they do this is that if all those subshades were lined up beside each other, the small differences that really exist would be REALLY hard for the customer to differentiate.  That doesn't mean the shades are *not* different.  They are.  But it's not as if it would be a real meaningful difference once you splatter it over the undershade of skin colour.  A spectrometer could tell, but the naked hman eye would be hard-pressed.

If I wasn't aware of your pysch background, I'd really be wondering just how you know so much about make-up! 

--john

[Mark Hammer]

Oh, I'm, like, so totaly Goth.  Like, totally.  I don't leave the house without my long black coat, and if we're having a business planning retreat, it's Estée Lauder all the way for me, fella.

[The Tone God]

Oh, I'm, like, so totaly Goth.  Like, totally.  I don't leave the house without my long black coat...

I think I saw you in downtown T.O. !

Andrew

[skiraly017]

Oh, I'm, like, so totaly Goth.  Like, totally.  I don't leave the house without my long black coat, and if we're having a business planning retreat, it's Estée Lauder all the way for me, fella.

Personally, I'm an Clinique kind of guy. It's easier on my delicate complexion. 

[MartyMart]

I prefer "MAX" .... the make up of "Film Stars"   

MM

BTW, the TA75558 chip sounds like "poo" in a TS  !!

[Gus]

Aron didn't someone (John IIRC) contact JRC and find out the chips are still the same?
Hint don't get to hung up on the chip use what you like

A TS can do something very nice, it is what is is

The 808 thing is small change that can get lost in a chain bigger than guitar 808 amp IMO.

Now something interesting I have heard two real 808s that had the "sound" as best as I can tell it is due to certain part inside the 808 the chip is the easy part.  I think it might be a story like the Vox wha inductor that R.G. wrote about.  I know the part but I have not found one that has the sound maybe it was a defective run of that part I can get close but it is still different.

I can't give this away

Before you can make any meaningful post you need to compare a older 808 with the "sound" with a modern one, reissue, modded, new build, DIY  808 type  and a guitar and amp that you know.

This all got interesting with the posting of someones take on the fulltone petal what was that 97? there are a few people that know whats going on in an old 808 but they don't talk/post about it.