Trem from MC1496? (PLUS MOOG RING MOD GUT SHOTS!)

[varialbender]

I'm looking to do some work with the MC1496 or NJM1496, but I need to know whether or not they can do trem?
I'll be feeding it an LFO doing square/triangle/saw/ramp/pulse stuff.
Are these modulator chips able to work with LFOs? Or am I better using OTAs?
Any info much appreciated

Thanks a bunch

PS opened my Moog Ring Mod this morning to be delighted by LM13700s. I always thought it was using a modulator chip, but saw these, and then found a couple posts briefly mentioning the fact that they're used. I'll be using NJM13700s for phase stages in the same circuit, so it might make sense to use the same ones for ring mod eh?

Edit: I always mix up 1946 and 1496 for some reason, and I told myself not to, but still...

[Zero the hero]

Did you mean MC1496 Balanced Modulator chip by Motorola?
Small Bear carries it, they are quite cheap too.
MC1496 is a Gilbert cell which forms the basis for 4 quadrant multiplication. 13700 can be configured as 2 quadrant multiplier.
4 quad mult features better carrier rejection so they could be easily used for balanced modulation and, in our stompboxes, may find place in ringmods, tremolos and very accurate volume controls.
2 quad mult may be used for ring modulation but, due too its poor carrier rejection, this design suffers of carrier bleedthrough. They are good for tremolos and volume control, instead.
13700 and OTAs in general can configured as variable filters, so that's why many autowahs (dod fx-25), phasers (ross phaser, Small stone) and wahs (dod fx-17) exploit this chip for modulation.

Is the moogerfrooger ring mod that you opened? I'm soooooo curios to see what's inside this jewel!! Can you take a couple of pics?!?!?!?

[varialbender]

There ya go, a ton of ICs on this work of beautiful art, even some SIPs.
Some weird things I've never heard of. Here's my attempt at reading the ICs:
TL072CP, LM13700N, V... (SIL), F FPQ3906 448 PHIL, V10K.... (SIL), LM13700N, AV47KO9240 (SIL), LM13700N, TL072CP, 7662 CPA H 9301

AV47KO9240 (SIL), LM339AN, V680 O9720, CD4049UBE

F FPQ3906 448 PHIL, LM324AN, LM13700AN, CD4024BE

Hopefully there aren't too many mistakes, a lot I didn't recognize that you might.
You can see the board is double-sided, has the rocker switches mounted on the board, as well as the pots which have the lugs facing inward (bottoms have the lugs on top and vice versa) and one row of jacks including power jack. The switching is just two wires, as opposed to the usual boutique true bypass stuff. 4 of the jacks have red wires going to the board. Very interesting looking jacks. Oh, and some of the LEDs are multicoloured (green when on, red when bypassed, and the input LED is green/orange/red depending on the envelope it's detecting. Also, some have said they didn't think there was noise suppression, but I've noticed that when playing, when the note is too soft, it cuts off. Otherwise it'd probably be too noisy.

So there you go, a lovely box.

[Ry]

Interesting!  I have a stash of about 20 of these chips somewhere.  I found them at a surplus place and knew they had potential as ring modulator chips, I just haven't gotten around to trying them out.

Zero, can you point me to any schematics on the web that use this chip?  I'm going to have to dig through the data sheets.

[NoFi]

Wow it looks like it could be diyable, or workalikable  !

[varialbender]

You mean schematics for the 13700 or the 1496?
I think you can use half of the 13700s for 3080 OTA based ring mods, such as the john hollis frobnicator. I read they're a bit tricky to build, so do a search and see what people say about them.

http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/frobnicator.jpg

As for 1496 ring mods, the paia 4710 balanced modulator uses this chip, if you can find a schematic for it.
Check some diy synth sites and see what comes up.

[Ry]

Sorry, I meant the 1496.  Thanks for the shots, by the way!

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

calling markusw... got another insane board for you to trace 

[Jaicen_solo]

I always thought the moogerfooger used transformers for true ring modulation. I guess you live and learn!
Anyway, forget all these 1496's, someone build a ring mod using AD693! I've got some, and they're readily available.

[Mark Hammer]

The schem for the PAiA 4710 is here: http://www.synthdiy.com/files/2005/PAIA_4710_Balanced_Modulator.gif

An explanation of the circuit is here: http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Paia/images/4710balm.txt?0046

[toneman]

Check out the "next generation"  BalancedModulator :  the Paia 9710
The 9710 uses the same chip (1496) as the 4710.
goto www.paia.com & check out ALL their DIY products.
Paia also posts the complete 9710 schematics!!!
stayDIY
Tone

[Mark Hammer]

Is it just me, or do other folks feel kind of creepy deciding which recently deceased guy (both Bob Moog and PAiA founder John Simonton passed away within the last year) to borrow from?

[Dave_B]

No, I feel the same way.  I'm not sure what to do about it though.  It would be nice if Paia would add a contribution button for the free stuff, but I guess they're not about that. 

[Dan N]

The ring mod part of the Gonkulator mioght be fertile for something decent.

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/gonkschemaybeV2.gif

An oscillator with more control and better ability to trim out bleedthrough and viola- 9 volt 1496 ring mod.

[varialbender]

Can anyone tell me if the 1496 can do slow trem? Does AC coupling cause a problem? (don't know much about that)
Can the paia 4710 do slow trem?

Thanks

[Zero the hero]

Thanks Varialbender!!!!
I didn't want to take ideas from / clone / trace the Moogerfrooger circuit. Having a look inside a pedal doesn't necessarely mean that I want to clone it.
I have a schem of a 1496 version of the Frequency Analyzer. Other circuits can be found on the Japanese electronic book posted while ago.
All of these circuits can be used as tremolos as long as the LFO speed is very low.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Is it just me, or do other folks feel kind of creepy deciding which recently deceased guy (both Bob Moog and PAiA founder John Simonton passed away within the last year) to borrow from?

Hell no. It's a tribute to them!
But, I'm sticking with the AD633 anyways...

[Eb7+9]

Can anyone tell me if the 1496 can do slow trem? Does AC coupling cause a problem? (don't know much about that)
Can the paia 4710 do slow trem?

the Gilbert multiplier doesn't need to have its inputs AC coupled to work ... if you look at the schem that Mark provided you'll notice the modulation side has two DC coupled inputs aside from one that's AC - use one of those DC ins with a LFO waveform that lies strictly in one of two quadrants while hitting the zero mark at it's minima or maxima ... use something that allows a vertical DC offset so you can set it right on the edge of the zero-output mark - or "crossed" for mixed trem effects (with inversion) ... use the AC-coupled carrier input for your signal ...