True Bypass, NonTrue Bypass, Split Bypass, Hardwire Bypass:Different treble loss

[formerMember1]

Hi,

We all obviously know a popular modification for a wah pedal,( or any pedal for that matter) is making it truebypass.

In my few wahs i built, i have used truebypass switching.  But, recently, about a month or so ago, I played a wah that was Hardwired bypassed.  I don't think that is a "true" bypass because i still heard a slight treble loss.  I liked how it sounded though, it made my tone darker but not muddy.  It made my fuzzface and Rangemasters clearer and better sounding. So when i built my next wah, i built it with a SPDT switch and made it non-true bypass by using this diagram from GeneralGuitarGadgets.com
http://generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_spdt_std_in.gif

>> actually, i couldn't get it to work with that wiring diagram, i had to swap those two brown and green wires, with the black wire on the switch, and then it worked<<  *maybe the diagram has an error?*

anyway, i didn't like this non true bypass.  It made the tone way too dark when bypassed, and it really wacked the signal hard.  So I am now thinking, Hardwire Bypass and non truebypass aren't the same thing.  I already know Hardwirebypass isn't truebypass.

SO my reason for posting is:

1.What is Split Bypass?  I heard from a pedal tech that this is a nice bypass for a wah to make your fuzzface sound better.

2.What is Hardwired Bypass? And why does it only cut a small amount of treble from your tone when bypassed. 

3. Will hardwire bypass allow me to use an LED in my wah and not worry about popping/clicking from the LED? 

Any diagrams, info, or links anyone knows of that i couldn't find in numerous searches please post 

thanks


I use an output buffer in my wahs, but only engaged when the wah is ON, so I hope hardwire bypass will allow me to still do that....

*edit*
the Hardwired bypass wah was a Dunlop crybaby Classic.

*edit 2*
found this site http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/bypass.htm
but still don't know... i read so many different things....

[petemoore]

  Short answer is long read sessions at Geo...and just what you're doing...experimenting.
  I've not heard of "split wire' or "hardwire' bypass methods.
  Tone sucking wahs have a SPDT, so the signal gets loaded by the circuit when bypassed.
  Jfets can be used with a momentary switch [like boss uses on all], I would't choose that for a DIY wah...unless I knew good reason to, you'd get 'free buffage' [complimentary/free buffer].
  A buffer between FF and wah can allow the wah to work with FF, this and true bypass is what I'm using.

[d95err]

Manufacturers often come up with creative names for their bypasses to hide the fact that they are not true bypass. "split bypass" or "hardwired bypass" could mean anything. Unless you have the schematic, there's no way of telling if even someting labeled as "true bypass" reall is true bypass. You should not make too much of the terminology here, since most of it has gone through the dreaded marketing department and come out as semi-truths (half-lies)...

True bypass is true bypass. This means the signal is physically completely disconnected from the effect. It should give exactly the same effect as if the effect was not there at all. Anything else is non-true bypass.

True bypass can lead to treble loss too, if there is no other buffer in the chain. A proper buffer, followed by true bypass pedals is probably gives the best treble response.

[R.G.]

Beautifully said:

Manufacturers often come up with creative names for their bypasses to hide the fact that they are not true bypass. "split bypass" or "hardwired bypass" could mean anything. Unless you have the schematic, there's no way of telling if even someting labeled as "true bypass" reall is true bypass. You should not make too much of the terminology here, since most of it has gone through the dreaded marketing department and come out as semi-truths (half-lies)...

I keep remembering one of my verbal heros, William Jefferson Clinton and his immortal remark that "it all depends on what your definition of 'is' is" and his idea that truth is anything that the questioner can't prove is false.

[formerMember1]

thanks to all.  But i already know that stuff since i learned it here on the forum from searching through these past months.
I appreciate the responses though.

I read about it on Geofex a couple weeks ago, I'll have to go back again, I'll probably find my answer there anyway, lol

Petemoore and others, this is where i heard of split bypass.  Click on their "tech n tip" also for more info on buffers and wahs and fuzzfaces and impedance issues....
http://www.moollon.com/product/product_wah_e.asp

thanks....

*EDIT*  here is what Dunlop said,... doesn't make sense...

Hello, Sir
I am sorry to inform you that it is against company policies to give out our schematics.

The GCB95F actually is a buffered bypass(hardwire bypass).

Thanks,

[burnt fingers]

I read hardwired bypass to mean that the is a mechanical switch as opposed to the boss style flip flop circuit.  Beyond that, I wouldn't call it true bypass unless the schematic or unit could be verified to be true bypass.

My. 02

Scott

[R.G.]

 

Petemoore and others, this is where i heard of split bypass.  Click on their "tech n tip" also for more info on buffers and wahs and fuzzfaces and impedance issues....

This is the first time I've heard of "split bypass" in over 30 years of pursuing effects electronics as a mania.
They say:

Split Bypass - Sounds are compatible with each other when bypassed or turned ON.
A kind of treble loss occurs when bypassed, which results in warm and mellow tone, one of the contributing factors to those gutsy sounds in 1960's.

Which I translate as "We put in some tone sucking for you like the primitive setups of the 60's so that it sounds "vintage" in bypass too."

The GCB95F actually is a buffered bypass(hardwire bypass).

And actually this is pretty clear - they tell you that they define buffered bypass as equal to "hardwire bypass". That means that the first thing that the signal hits in the box is a buffer, and the output is either the effected signal or the buffered signal. The input signal remains hardwired to the input at all times.

[formerMember1]

gotch ya!  THanks R.G.

Seems there are many names for the same type of bypass arrangement,..  and everyone selling their pedals comes up with another name or something....

Quote
The GCB95F actually is a buffered bypass(hardwire bypass).[/quote]

And actually this is pretty clear - they tell you that they define buffered bypass as equal to "hardwire bypass". That means that the first thing that the signal hits in the box is a buffer, and the output is either the effected signal or the buffered signal. The input signal remains hardwired to the input at all times.

that makes sense now then.  only thing is, i have this GCB95F circuit board.  IT has a DPDT but has no wires.  The circuit board goes right to the switch and jacks and everything.  IF it has a buffer, then it should work with a fuzzface then shouldn't it?, but it doesn't work at all with a fuzz.  And why would they use a DPDT, and have the pedal still not be truebypass and use a buffer too? There is no LED or anything.... here is a pic:



It looks like the buffer is a opamp, or part of the SMD components or whatever.

Only odd thing about this wah, is it sounds great.  Very vocal and vintage crybaby like.  And the part that is odd, is  it has SMD components.  No fish caps, carbon comps or mojo, or anything like that.... and it still sounds great.  It had a red fasel and i removed it.