Schematic Requests

[DEZREJECT]

Hey I'm wondering if anyone has a link or access to some schematics...

i'm interested in the following

the new mxr EVH flanger
the new mxr EVH phase 90
the new mxr Zakk Wylde overdrive
the newish mxr Dime Distortion
the old mxr stereo chorus (ala rhoads)
the new mxr stereo chorus
the newish mxr kerry king 10band eq
the new mxr boost/line driver
dunlop rotovibe pedal
the new dunlop slash wah

also anyone know how the morley bad horsie wahs are turned out? or the dunlop crybaby q? there is no stomp switch so im guessing its something that just goes downa tad as soon as u put ur foot on it and engages it.... does anyone have one? like it? reverse engineered it?



-------------------

additions

reverse playing pedal?? i guess like the danelectro back talk???

[Mark Hammer]

Oy yoy yoy....  My older son will sometimes tell me "You'd like the new episode of <show name here>" and I'll say "How would you know?  It's not going to be on until tomorrow.", and he'll say "I downloaded it and saw it already".   

Schematics ain't like that.  Here's how it works (one more time). 

Schematic diagrams are produced for patent purposes and for troubleshooting/servicing purposes.  Some places/manufacturers incorporate servicing into the purchase price (so, more $), and some don't (Hmmm, think the $15 Dano Fab series include servicing?). Some companies make a point of circulating or posting schematics for the purpose of assisting all those tireless people in music stores at the repair bench.  That way, the fewer complaints you hear from your buddies about crappy pedals that don't work, the better the reputation of the company's product and the more they sell.  Servicing is also a nuisance for the manufacturer because it involves having the salaried staff to service, and having shipping and receiving responsibilities as well as communicating with consumers - an all-round money drain if you deal in the quantities that Boss and similar companies do.  Since the repair people make money from repairs, and since there IS some effort on the pat of the manufacturer to respond to such requests and they don't want to drown in requests from people who are not interested or helping in maintaining the good name of that product, manufacturers will often charge a nominal sum like $10-20 for shipping you out a schematic.  Occasionally, people in possession of such schematics allow them to circulate, or loan them to friends, or whatever.  These can turn up as scans.

Every once in a while, someone will "reverse engineer" a pedal and post what they have interpreted as the circuit.  Generally, because it is an enormous effort to do so, accuracy and reliability of the traced schematic goes down as parts count goes up.  As our pal Ton/Puretube often notes, you can't blindly trust posted schematics.  In some instances, you can't even trust factory schematics.  I doubt these are deliberate errors (like those old "guitar fake books" that would substitute chords now and then to avoid copyright issues).  More likely an oversight that someone didn't catch because the company themselves is long past the point of needing the schematic and doesn't sink tons of resources into assuring accuracy with multiple error checks.

Here's the thing, though.  If it ain't broke (because it is new and well-made), then it don't need fixing.  And if it don't need fixing, then who would ask for a schematic and shell out the money?  And if nobody requests a schematic, what are the chances of it floating to the top for posting?  So what is the likelihood that a schematic for a NEW pedal is suddenly going to just "show up"?  What is the likelihood that a working musician, or someone with the money to just "pop in" and buy stuff, would spend the hours required to reverse engineer something, draw it up and verify the schematic?  It just doesn'T happen.

Now, if enough time passes, and if enough of the units are subject to breakdown over time, and if enough repair people pay the money to get the schems, and if enough of them are easy-going enough that they don't mind handing over what they paid money for, and if enough of them are willing to scan and post......well, then the odds are you may find a schematic.  Whether it's accurate or informative is another thing.  Someone posted a series of schematics for several Marshall pedals, and those have to be just about the worst-drawn schematics I have ever seen.  The only way you could read them is if you could have designed the damn pedal yourself.

I don't mean to be harsh with you, but the easy availability of some things in life (like bootleg movies/software), and the plentifulness of schematics for some of the thousands and thousands of commercial pedals that have existed over the years, creates the impression that these things just...show up....a bit like the meat on styrofoam trays in the supermarket.  They do, I suppose, but in this instance they show up the way rings do on a tree trunk....you'll simply have to wait.

[DEZREJECT]

ive seen ur name a few times... so im gunna deff respect what ur saying... and i did read it all... and i understand what u saying.. but the thing is certain pedals are WORTH that reverse engineering... why do people buy brand new cars and then somethings rip the engine out only to rebuild it all? because thats what they like to do. a friends doing that to a new z06 corvette to supercharge it and some other stuff and i had to help him on some things.... the point is... u can find the schematic for the dime wah.. i have it. why would anyone want that? why not just goto guitar center and buy one? well ill tell you why. im 17, supporting myself, and i can barely make the rent. a girl totaled my car by running a red light. guitar is my passion, and when im not happy with my wah, ill mod it, not go buy one.  for that reason there id reverse engineer any pedal i have if i saw the right reason there.... now i understand some things just arent worht it nor will they just be released, but say the mxr flanger.. the new one i a def improvement on the old... and the EVH switchs the "script/block" switching and all that.. the wah boosts, these little custom tricks, its cool to see how they did it, because then in turn you can go do it.

the zakk wah is very new, go look at that post... the schems out for that too.

now dont get me wrong, im not saying i know everything or deserve everyones hard work just because i cant afford a pedal... BUT... in totadys technology where you can just download a movie, ie i watched the omen this morning.. and ill tell ya what.. i dont have a car to get to the theater, how could i have done that? the internet is an amazing tool.

also im not ness just looking for the schem to build it its also an understanding thing, or say, ill be 18 in 9 days... i wouldnt mind getting a new wah.. if the dime is exactly what i wanted for sound... i could then say find out what it was based on... ie the zakk is based close to another dunlop board.. one thats a helluva lot cheaper.. then i could say buy that, mod it to zakks wahs specs.... you see?

i understand where youre coming from, and i respect that... but there are the chances that the schems do float up to the top, and im just fishing to see what is floating and if its anythign id be interested it....

[Mark Hammer]

Start by reading the "Technology of Wahs" article over at www.geofex.com  That will show you how to get more out of any scuffed up wah you bought for $20.  It's VERY well written and makes the whole thing crystal clear.  If it isn't crystal clear, then you probably shouldn't be monkeying around with that stuff just yet.

Schems WILL float to the top, but it takes time for purely logical and reasonable reasons.  Be patient....but also be cautious.

As for duplicating pedals for cheap so you can support yourself as a musician, well, part of what you pay for when you buy stuff new is dependability.  Another part is "your share" of all the tools and machines and facilities the manufacturer had to buy or fork out for to make the pedal to that degree of reliability and roadworthiness.  If you're 17, supporting yourself, don't have a machine shop, can't afford to just buy yourself one, and would like to have gear a little more, um, "reliable" than your girlfriend, turning to questionable schems and going DIY without the background or equipment to make it gig-worthy is probably not your best route to pursue.  People don't instantly think, "Well, he made/modded it himself, so I don't mind waiting another 20 minutes for them to start playing again after it gets fixed."

I understand where you're coming from, and this old fart suggests you: a) appreciate what is currently readily available as well-understood, well-known, and fully-debugged circuits (via Tonepad, GGG, ROG, etc.), b) avoid being distracted by promo literature, fads, and big name associations, and c) start working on your own sound/style with what gear you have.

Beyond that, welcome on board.

[DEZREJECT]

yeah ive read it... and it does make sence... and i agree with you on pretty much everything... live ive never had a problem with any pedal ive built... actually ive had more problems with pedals i didnt build like the vox resissue wah switch not working right, had to replace that a month in brand new.. and the pots been scratchy pretty much as long as i can remember.. and yes i know that can be fixed and thats the point.... but the thing is you work around that hassle, especially gigging... that to me is the pont of this... understanding more, and being able to work around whatever gets thrown out

i especially understand the live thing.. im living down in FL now, theres no scene here.. in fact... florida should be dettached from the united states its hell to live in this "vacation paradise".... anyways before that i was living in iowa, and honestly suprising enough, amazing music scene... and for those shows, i know people arent gunna wait, u either go, or make a bad impression...  we've all had our share of gear failure, hell my first show... i brought 3 guitars, by the end of the set EVERY single one had one broken string.. and they were all fairly fresh, and 2 of the guitars were fully floating floyds... yeah that was fun to try to work around til the end of the song lol....

the diy thing to me is cool yes to recreate the pedal, but more so over dialing it in... i bought a big muff pi reissue, for example and i just am not happy wiht the sound of it... ill prolly end up changing some parts, switchable caps and such... (see dano's site)

ive used tonepad, generalguitargadgets, etc... but to be honest the run of the mill pedals dont do it for me... everyone has a fuzz face, everyone has a tube screamer... for that im interested in trying to weird things (tychobrahe parapedal is the current board)... and the thing is ive built quite a few pedals from GGG... why didnt i post back then? no need to.... its all layed out for you.. put this there, that here and so on.. theres a few mods... but i mean how many people have built that fuzz face or that trem? yes its testing, and i am thankful for those sites.. i mean im in the proccess of planning paint for this custom wah, im also thinking ill do the EA trem... but like i said, its laid out for you, theres not much to change in my eyes (yes i knowhteres some mods, but get what im saying)... for my custom wah i want to be able to compare EVERY wah that i can, and then take and pic what i like and dislike..... say for the tychobrahe, i dont like the volume roll off thing im told happens on the trebel side (toe down) so that could be switched out...

looking at that list i understand the big names thing... but that wasnt the point.. i dont want to be eddie van halen, or dime or zakk... honestly eddie van halen was a douche bag and way too overly %^&*y... i just love the fact that his pedals are switchable liek say the phase 90.. that opens up so much moreof the effect you can try the script OR block.. all in one pedal... check out danos site like i mentioned... id prolly be one of the only guys to actually use one of those lab type pedals live..? why because of the versatality... and then ofcourse say for a wah pedal with 50 billion switches in case my diy fails, bring the vox as a back up...  im not just trying to get every one elses pedal... i have an old orig mxr flanger im working on.. im not quite sure whats wrong with the board i just got it from a friend for 10 bucks... heh... same with an old distortion plus... one resister was burnt in the D+, fixed it, done bam.. 10$ pedal... works great.......but anyways that flanger... id like to add something to it, even more versatality.. but thats a pretty big circuit and besides just switchable say sweep caps or something.. the only mod to that i can think of would be the EVH one, as far as being easy feasible, and tested because its already in production

the other thing is likelyness between pedals... id bet that zakk overdrive is a helluva lot like my distortion plus... well then i could mod the distortion plus to say, distortion+, zakk mode, its also clsoe to that dod circuit... etc etc etc...

and back to the name thing... i love dimebag... he is in my mind the hendrix of time.. amazing guy, amazing player... but i will not buy his wah. my camaro has a CFH logo on it... why? cuz i loved pantera... i support them. but i wouldnt buy his wah because its not my style... i dont like what little the pot gets turned on the rack and gear deal that dunlop/ "vox" does, because to me besides that this is the best "commercial" wah as far as flexibility and price and availability.... thats why im working with a morley pedal... but the thing is to build a pedal into another housing that originally used an opitcal circuit... to help along with the matching up and mechanical possibilities i like to compare all the circuits and go from there...

as far as the machine shop thing... this post just goes forever doesnt it? lol dont feel like im offended or just trying to be a dick.. i just had a convo like this with my dad on why im working on that wah this hardcore... i sanded it with 40, 60, 100, 150, and now 400 grit, priming it, doing an all custom airbrushed paint job and then implicating a totally redesigned control system on it for the rocker pedal, and hes saying itsjust a pedal why worry its not like i have a machine shop or auto body shop in my garage to just fix it.... but same with my 82 camaro... i dont have a professional engine builder, in fact everything ive done on that car (new suspension, new engine, new tranny, restoring interior, custom lighting, or even stereos for other people), ive done in my garage with limited tools and no one taught or helped... i just toyed around with it, and now id be comfortable doing just about anything with a car... so to relate.. im trying to get what i have wiht cars.. an understanding by doing it.

and the other thing is with pedals, if you can see how other people have done it.. look at the millenium bypass it seems rg was almost inspired by the rat bypass, im not syaing he ripped off of it.. im saying he seemed to look at what other poeple have done... and said.. damn.. he did that.. thats awesome, but hey i could do this and this and this... and it just flows from there u know?


oh and so you know, if ever vacationing in collier county, FL.... my plate says PPL H8ME... lol i wonder where id ever get that..

[R.G.]

and the other thing is with pedals, if you can see how other people have done it.. look at the millenium bypass it seems rg was almost inspired by the rat bypass, im not syaing he ripped off of it.. im saying he seemed to look at what other poeple have done... and said.. damn.. he did that.. thats awesome, but hey i could do this and this and this... and it just flows from there u know?

Inspired by the Rat bypass? No question at all - it IS the Rat bypass but updated.

The only magic there is the realization that a reverse biased diode makes a great constant current source if you have something to sense it, and that current sources that low are what the Rat bypass tried to do but didn't. I haven't done a patent search, but as nearly as I can tell, that was the first time anyone ever used a reverse biased diode INTENDED to be used for a current source.

Quoting a wise old gentleman - we all stand on the shoulders of giants.

This all reminds me of the story, from Mark Twain I think. He said "When I was seventeen, I knew everything there was to know. My father was so ignorant that I could not stand him. When I got to be twenty-one, I was amazed at what the Old Man had learned in those four short years."

[petemoore]

  It's cool to have your path planned, however the planned path makes no concessions to where the unkown path can lead you.
  'Messing about with schemata-fragmenta' [this means 'guided' experimentations using data sheets and other diagrams, ..and compiling them] with circuits could well get you at least some of what you want, also some things you hadn't planned on wanting.
  By 'Guided' I mean if what you want requires LFO, research LFO's and LFO applications etc., there is a chance you can build somehting very close to what you want. Learning how to manipulate LFO's'd be cool of course, something I haven't messed around with much.
  BTW Wasn't there a recent 'Slash-Wah-hash-out' here? [slashwah theories, info and ideas]...I don't remember a Schematic, just reference to one Crybaby type IIRC, and relevant parts value changes.  I *think.