Swirling the notches and Swelling the notches not sweeping

[markphaser]

The Line 6 Echo Park mark hammer help on their is a function SWELL this is what i mean by a swell pedal
not a volume tremolo it makes the guitar swell but how what kind of circuit produces this inside the line 6 echo park?

My Korg AX3000 digital have a Leslie sim. and its Swirls it doesn't swell its swirls around and around

Swelling is different than volume tremolo

How do u make a tremolo pedal SWELL or a phase shifter SWELL like a simple MXR phase 90 ?

How do u make a tremolo pedal SWIRL or a phase shifter SWIRL like a simple MXR phase 90 ?

[R.G.]

Please, please, please do not feed the markphaser.

If you think you can explain it, first do a search and read some of the past threads from markphaser.

[Mark Hammer]

The Line 6 Echo Park mark hammer help on their is a function SWELL this is what i mean by a swell pedal
not a volume tremolo it makes the guitar swell but how what kind of circuit produces this inside the line 6 echo park?

My Korg AX3000 digital have a Leslie sim. and its Swirls it doesn't swell its swirls around and around

Swelling is different than volume tremolo

How do u make a tremolo pedal SWELL or a phase shifter SWELL like a simple MXR phase 90 ?

How do u make a tremolo pedal SWIRL or a phase shifter SWIRL like a simple MXR phase 90 ?

"SWELL" just means that the volume increases gradually over a single note, or over several notes.  The "SWELL" in the Echo Park makeseach echo repeat gradually increase in volume, instead of just being repeated the way you played it.  Because that is all digital, I'm not going to explain how it happens....simply because I don't know!

What you are describing as SWIRL is a change in which frequencies are emphasized or de-emphasized by filtering or phase-shifting.  What is described as SWELL is just a change in the overall volume/loudness of what you hear, without some frequencies being louder or softer than others.

With tremolo, the circuit doesn't notice where your notes start or stop.  It just keeps increasing and decreasing the volume in a cycle.  With any sort of "swell" effect, whether it is analog or digital, the circuit (or software) keeps track of where a note or sequence of notes starts, and adjusts the volume so that it gradually increased from that starting point.

I won't get into explaining it because that would be a lot of work, but this gives you - and others - the general idea.

[cd]

Please, please, please do not feed the markphaser.

If you think you can explain it, first do a search and read some of the past threads from markphaser.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?action=profile;u=4550;sa=showPosts

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=markphaser&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[darryl]

What is the Meaning of Life? 

[David]

Please, please, please do not feed the markphaser.

If you think you can explain it, first do a search and read some of the past threads from markphaser.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?action=profile;u=4550;sa=showPosts

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=markphaser&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Lord have mercy!  This dude is EVERYWHERE!

[petemoore]

What is the Meaning of Life?
  It is just a phase we all go through...

[hank reynolds 3rd]

What is the Meaning of Life?
  It is just a phase we all go through...

Har Har!!!
that tickled me...

[markphaser]

 But with a MXR phase 90 i can't get it to Swell or Swirl what type of circuits would i need to add on or modify the circuit
to make the LFO or phase circuit Swell and Swirl i would like to do both functions

Goals are : 1.) To Swell the Notches
                2.) To Swirl the notches

How can i do this please?

[Mark Hammer]

Trying to do both on the one pedal will not work.  It has only enough circuitry to do the one functionand would need a complete redesign from the bottom up to be able to do both.  Make separate pedals to do each function.

"Swirling" notches is what a phaser normally does.  "Swelling" notches would involves producing a separate tremolo or something similar that acted on ONLY the phase-shifted signal at the point where the phase-shifted and normal get combined.  If I've understood you correctly, this would essentially be a phase-shifted sound that fades in and out.  Having it just fade in and out regularly, in spite of what you play is more like atremolo function.  Having it gradually face in at the start of a note or chord starts to get very complicated.

[markphaser]

Thanks Mark Hammer for the help

The New Boss has a leslie sim. pedal and there is digital pedals that have leslie sim.
the pedals swirl on a mono speaker its 3D but they are using volume to make it swirl
a tremolo uses volume to but it doesn't swirl like the leslie sim. how the design make the volume swirl

How would u turn a Tremolo pedal into a leslie sim. pedal by making the volume Swirl?

Make separate pedals to do each function.

How would i do this separate then ? what type of circuit would i need to add for a swell and swirl please?

[Mark Hammer]

These are all digital pedals you describe.  I am afraid I cannot help you with those.

[StephenGiles]

Thanks Mark Hammer for the help

The New Boss has a leslie sim. pedal and there is digital pedals that have leslie sim.
the pedals swirl on a mono speaker its 3D but they are using volume to make it swirl
a tremolo uses volume to but it doesn't swirl like the leslie sim. how the design make the volume swirl

How would u turn a Tremolo pedal into a leslie sim. pedal by making the volume Swirl?

Make separate pedals to do each function.

How would i do this separate then ? what type of circuit would i need to add for a swell and swirl please?

3 of sand to 1 of cement

[markphaser]

Yes Mark Hammer i know but how can u do this analog??

[Transmogrifox]

Yes Mark Hammer i know but how can u do this analog??

Go to Ken Stone's modular synth pages and build every signal processing module in his modular synth, then plug your guitar into them instead of synthesized waveforms.  You could get all kinds of suck and swirl and buzz and blap you want.  Call it your "Swirligig".

If you want a simple solution, you need to warp to a different universe where the laws of physics work more conveniently for this kind of thing.

[RaceDriver205]

Yeah, I think the resounding answer here, markphaser, is "we don't know". You have the option of building a slow-gear which is a volume "sweller". Its available at GGG.

[Mark Hammer]

Yes Mark Hammer i know but how can u do this analog??

The simplest thing here is to make yourself or adapt a phaser in the following manner:

1) The last phase shift stage has to have its connection to the mixer stage interrupted.  This mixer stage will usually be a single op-amp.  Because of what you will need to do, DO NOT use a phaser that either combines the phase-shift and normal sounds passively (like the Small Stone does) or at a single transistor stage.

2) The output of the phase shift stages has to be "prepared" as if it were going to be its own separate output.

3) Make or adapt a tremolo that can do slower speeds.

4) Feed the phase shift output to the tremolo and feed the tremolo to where the phase shift signal used to go in the mixer stage.

This will provide a phase shift effect that fades in and out.  The "swell" will NOT be synchronized to your playing, however.  To make the swell follow your playing, you would need to have a trigger detector, an envelope generator and a voltage-controlled amplifier instead of the tremolo so that the guitar input signal would: a) trigger the envelope generator, b) the envelope generator would control the VCA, and c) the VCA would gradually increase the level of the phase shifted signal each time you picked/plucked.

The simplest wayto do this would be to send PAiA Electronics an order for one of their "Gator" pedals (about $35 plus all the usual fees).  The Gator is a noise gate but will also do slower swells instead of just opening the gate immediately.  It also has an external input jack to "key" the gate and swell. 

So...
- guitar goes to phase shifter AND noise gate.
- phase shift stages output goes to audio input of noise gate
- noise gate audio output goes to mixing stage of phase shifter
- noise gate is set for slow attack/onset time

[markphaser]

Thanks alot Mark Hammer for your thoughts about this

Do u think its better to put a SEND and RETURN jacks "inserting" in between the FiNAl phase stage the active op-amp mixer stage and put a "Slow gear" type of pedal

[Mark Hammer]

The Gator does exactly what the Slow Gear does, so yes you are correct.

Just remember that the output of the last phase shift stage needs to be adapted to feed that send jack (a series cap and terminating resistor) and the mixer stage needs to be adapted to the return jack.

[markphaser]

Thanks Mark Hammer alot for the information

Why does the output need to be "adapted" with a series cap and terminating resistor?

I always see inputs , returns, sends , outputs have this "adapted network" a series cap and terminating resistor what are they for ?

series cap= is to Block DC and let AC riding pass through
Terminating Resistor= is for to match impedances, circuit reactance ?


OTA's have a gain input to adjust the volume like the small stone is there a way to make the notches in each stage SWIRL with volume gain adjust + PANNING?

Be cool if the OTA"s had a PANNING PIN to set the panning degrees then we can make the notches and valleys SWIRL