Swirling the notches and Swelling the notches not sweeping

[markphaser]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker im sure this is analog but how do u think this circuit works please?

A block diagram of stages?

[The Tone God]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker im sure this is analog but how do u think this circuit works please?

A block diagram of stages?

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker uses analog beer to create the swirling action you ask about. You take each stage and add beer till its cycle is beer delayed enough. This beer delay is controlled by the level of beer and phase swirl of the beer. How much swirl depends on the types of stages of beer used, the length of the beer swirl, and number of beer stages. When the swirling beer cycle is completed you can notch the beer so another beer can be used for the next beer cycle.

Andrew

[nelson]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker im sure this is analog but how do u think this circuit works please?

A block diagram of stages?

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker uses analog beer to create the swirling action you ask about. You take each stage and add beer till its cycle is beer delayed enough. This beer delay is controlled by the level of beer and phase swirl of the beer. How much swirl depends on the types of stages of beer used, the length of the beer swirl, and number of beer stages. When the swirling beer cycle is completed you can notch the beer so another beer can be used for the next beer cycle.

Andrew

In typical dano fashion they used cheap beer. Analogman and keeley do a great mod for this pedal. They increase the alchohol content of the beer by replacing the beer with imported beer brewed in metal film containers. This increases potency of the sweep and allows for a faster wobble.

[StephenGiles]

Nah.........I thought they used Gin...........Gordon's of course!

[RaceDriver205]

markphaser, the spinning speaker is most likely a phase-shifter, chorus, or univibe type circuit.

[Torchy]

Mark -
   Your patience and knowledge (in equal measure) never cease to surprise me. This thread has actually cleared a few misunderstandings I had, so thanks also to markphaser (do I detect a better and more compliant attitude  )

Thanks guys.

[Mark Hammer]

Mr. Phaser can sometimes ask some questions or *number* of questions that can be a little exasperating to reply to, but his interest is genuine and sometimes raises some interesting topics.  Cogniscent of how many lurkers are here, I always try to direct my replies not only to the person asking the question, but to those who don't even know yet that this was a question they needed to ask.  Life teaches that you often learn things in the most unexpected of ways and in the most unexpected of places, so I figure it pays to always try and make sure that maybe there's a little to learn every time I open my mouth.  I know it gets irritatingly pedantic for some folks, but other folks get something out of it.

Markphaser,
The Rocky Road **IS** the type of effect you could, in theory, modify to do what I described.  The problem is that this particular circuit/pedal is really much too small and susceptible to damage to physically do such a modification.

[R.G.]

I hereby nominate Mark Hammer for sainthood, on the basis of not only his knowledge but also his patience.

I wish we could fast track the process of cannonization so he could get the medal while he's still alive. Maybe there's something we could do about that.

Imagine, our own Saint Mark of the Filters.

[petemoore]

  Here Here ... Three cheers for Mark 'n Mark !!! and the others...
         
  Much of it is well written comedy IMOHO!!!
  Some very Interesting answers, not to mention the questions...whew !!and a great script to remember it by...

[nelson]

I hereby nominate Mark Hammer for sainthood, on the basis of not only his knowledge but also his patience.

I wish we could fast track the process of cannonization so he could get the medal while he's still alive. Maybe there's something we could do about that.

Imagine, our own Saint Mark of the Filters.

As one of our a non-religious denomination forumites. I say we take the step towards ultimately indulging whatever narcissistic tendencies Mark has and just chip in for a statue.

[jonathan perez]

As one of our a non-religious denomination forumites. I say we take the step towards ultimately indulging whatever narcissistic tendencies Mark has and just chip in for a statue.

statue? are you kidding?

its time we give up a small country in the honor of Mr. Hammer.

[The Tone God]

I would ask others not to post in this thread anymore. My earlier post was not to be funny but a test so I would like at this moment to be the only one that MP responses to.

Thanks everyone.

Andrew

P.S. I voted for Mark for Prime Minister!

[markphaser]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker is a volume controlled Swirling circuit how did they do this analog please?

Does anyone have the schematic or a clone circuit of this type of effect please?

[The Tone God]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker is a volume controlled Swirling circuit how did they do this analog please?

No Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker is not a volume controlled swirling circuit. It's relationship to the amplitude which reflects the broom sweep of the growing up phase to the peak level. Once the volume under total control will switch from digital to analog under the spinning pressure decided by the growth phase.

Does anyone have the schematic or a clone circuit of this type of effect please?

If you do a search for "single broom sweep" or "multiple peak phase swirl" you should find something.

To cover everything
How much time
Is avalible
Sunday that you

Intended to give
So that you can

Arrive

To the
End
Somewhere
That is useful.

Good luck.

Andrew

[Transmogrifox]

Mark Hammer is our saint, and the Tone God is our deceiving devil.  Devil or not, I'm glad you like beer.

Mr. Hammer:  I was really inspired by your suggestion for putting the equivalent of a trigger/swell (like a slowgear or noise gate) in the phase shift sidechain before mixing.  It really drives your point home about being able learn from some of the less expected sources.  I had started reading this post for my daily comedy and lo and behold mark phaser asked some good questions and I learned something.

Mark Phaser:  I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to explain with the swirl and swell thing.  Is it the sound of the Danelectro Rocky Road that you're explaining?

The way the OTA works in a filter (thus in a phaser) is that the gain of the amp determines the cut-off frequency of the filter, and not necessarily the overall gain of the phase stage.  This is what makes the notches sweep up and down in frequency.  If you just set this pin at a certain place, like tying the resistor on the gain control pin to Vcc, there would still be notches.  They just wouldn't be moving up and down the spectrum so it wouldn't sound swirly. It would just sound like there was something missing from the signal.

I think you would do well to try what Mark Hammer suggested and see if it comes close to what you're describing.  You'll learn a lot from just trying things.

[bwanasonic]

Danelectro Rocky Road Spinning Speaker is a volume controlled Swirling circuit how did they do this analog please?

Does anyone have the schematic or a clone circuit of this type of effect please?

I've fooled around with manually syncing ( by ear) a tremolo pedal with a phase shifter (DOD 250 w/ *univibe* caps), with some pretty leslie-ish results. The tremolo gives the swell/ throb, and the phaser gives *swirl*. If what you are after is a leslie sim, there are many different approaches to getting swell/ swirl, and there have been a number of mechanical solutions ( i.e. moving parts) discussed here.

Kerry M

[Mark Hammer]

Not sure if we've drifted off-topic or not, but there are some interesting ideas to follow up on here.

In some past discussions about simulating rotating speakers in analog, I've noted that one of the things not particularly well-captured by flangers, chorus pedals, phasers, or univibes, is the manner in which  there is a slight volume fluctuation as the rotor points away from the listener/player and then back at them.  Because of reflections and other means of distributing the sound, it is not as robust a volume fluctuation as one would find in a tremolo, but it is there nonetheless.

So maybe what is needed here is to turn a 4-stage phaser/univibe into a Q&D Leslie is to stick in an OTA stage between the last phase-shifter stage and the mixer, and have it synced to the same LFO.  In some respects, the ideal would be to use an OTA-based phaser like the Ross unit or Small Stone, and insert just one more OTA in the path.  The control current to that 5th Iabc pin would presumably be adjusted so that the volume fluctuation would be suitably subtle.

Now the $64,000 question: Is the location of the notches and volume dip during the sweep cycle appropriate without further modification?  In other words, if the synchronized volume dip occurred at the same point where the notches were situated at the highest end of their range, would that sound more Leslie-like, or is the appropriate arrangement for the notches to be at the lowest point in their range when that dip kicks in?

This is a critical question because, depending on where one parametric change needs to be, relative to where the other one is, one may have to invert the control signal or not.  If it was *just* a standard 2 op-amp triangle LFO, then inverting is a breeze.  Unfortunately, the LFO on the Small Stone and Ross is the so-called hypertriangular waveform, optimized for smooth phasing.  Not only is simply "flipping that over" a little complicated, but it gets you something VERY different

In any event, all these hurdles and challenges aside, it would be nice to see if such a beast, in its simplest form, sounded a little more Leslie-like to people's ears than a plain vanilla phaser or Univibe.

[Doug_H]

Mark, You are a more patient man than me...

So maybe what is needed here is to turn a 4-stage phaser/univibe into a Q&D Leslie is to stick in an OTA stage between the last phase-shifter stage and the mixer, and have it synced to the same LFO.  In some respects, the ideal would be to use an OTA-based phaser like the Ross unit or Small Stone, and insert just one more OTA in the path.  The control current to that 5th Iabc pin would presumably be adjusted so that the volume fluctuation would be suitably subtle.

Now the $64,000 question: Is the location of the notches and volume dip during the sweep cycle appropriate without further modification?  In other words, if the synchronized volume dip occurred at the same point where the notches were situated at the highest end of their range, would that sound more Leslie-like, or is the appropriate arrangement for the notches to be at the lowest point in their range when that dip kicks in?

This is a critical question because, depending on where one parametric change needs to be, relative to where the other one is, one may have to invert the control signal or not.  If it was *just* a standard 2 op-amp triangle LFO, then inverting is a breeze.  Unfortunately, the LFO on the Small Stone and Ross is the so-called hypertriangular waveform, optimized for smooth phasing.  Not only is simply "flipping that over" a little complicated, but it gets you something VERY different

There should be a way of putting an adjustable time delay between the OTA and LFO. Then you could adjust it until it sounds "right" and make your determination from that.

Doug

[gez]

Now the $64,000 question: Is the location of the notches and volume dip during the sweep cycle appropriate without further modification?  In other words, if the synchronized volume dip occurred at the same point where the notches were situated at the highest end of their range, would that sound more Leslie-like, or is the appropriate arrangement for the notches to be at the lowest point in their range when that dip kicks in?

In OTA all-pass stages lowest point of sweep = max phase shift (equiv of single rotor furthest away from listener).  With OTA VCA, lowest point of sweep = quietest, so no need to invert LFO waveform: they tally.

Running everything thru a trem stage isn't as musical as just running just lowest frequencies thru (in my experience).

[Andre]

Something like this maybe:



VC1032-05 is a dual low pass filter and BA6110 is a VCA

André