press-n-peel paper

[disto]

spent hours and hours trying to produce a decent pnp pcb board today its driving me crazy i tried it 3 or 4 times... the name press-n-peel makes it sound so easy! how ever i found it really hard! any one have any advice!

i tried cleaning the board using fine wire wool until you could almost use it as a mirror and every time there seemed to be tracks missing! Ive given up and I'm touching up the missing tracks which consist of about 30% of the board.

[QSQCaito]

Use the search button, i think this problem has been dicussed. You've got 2 options, print from a different source(other printer/photocopier), or trace what's missing with a permanent marker(sharpie)

Bye Bye!

Diego Andrés Cao

[moody07747]

I have to get a better kit myself.

the radioshack one says clean the copper board, lay some carbon paper ontop of it, and then the printed circuit from the computer....trace the paper marks and when done remove the paper and carbon paper.

i tried this but it didnt work out too well.

im looking into how people are using the printers for this now.

[any]

First off, make sure you're printing on to the PnP paper with a laser printer, not an inkjet.
Second if you use a laser printer and results are not decent to begin with, the type of
laser printer might be incompatible.
(for instance our new Xerox Docucolor 240 wich is crap for this, so I have to use an old HP laserjet)
If results are decent, i.e. you get large parts of the layout transfered but with spots that are missing,
you should iron the design on more accuratly making sure you've went over every part of the pcb
with a bit off pressure to push the toner in.

I hope this will give you some guidlines to get along.
I messed up about 3 sheets to find out the d*mn Xerox toner doesn't stick when you reheat it...
with the Laserjet it's almost always direct succes.

Go here to see what the Xerox mess looks like (incompatible toner):
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album47/DSC07226

[disto]

thanks... hmmm im not sure if it was the tonner or not! i was using a brother printer.

i started of getting really crap results the final result wasnt as bad as the first but still had whole tracks missing! maybe it just needs serious cleaning! and mine wasnt good enough

[$uperpuma]

I find that cleaning the board VERY thoroughly is VERY impoertant...I use a sponge with the coarse srubber on the back side, I Bon Ami cleanser from the store...cheap and works great...and making sure you have a good iron heat/ iron time balance... go over the traces several times...all of them. My first few turned out badly as well...but once you get used to it... the results are nice.

[Pushtone]

i tried cleaning the board using fine wire wool until you could almost use it as a mirror

I'm not sure that's what you want. It should be shiny clean but still roughed-up. I use 000 steel wool and it leaves tiny scratches.
I think the scratches give the toner something to hold onto. Paint doesn't stick to shiny surfaces. The directions on a spray can
always tell you to sand glossy areas.

But it sounds like your problem lies with the toner in your printer. Try a photocopier and select the darkest contrast option to get extra toner onto the page.

[markm]

i tried cleaning the board using fine wire wool until you could almost use it as a mirror

I'm not sure that's what you want. It should be shiny clean but still roughed-up. I use 000 steel wool and it leaves tiny scratches.
I think the scratches give the toner something to hold onto. Paint doesn't stick to shiny surfaces. The directions on a spray can
always tell you to sand glossy areas.

But it sounds like your problem lies with the toner in your printer. Try a photocopier and select the darkest contrast option to get extra toner onto the page.

Same here Pushtone but, I use 0000 steel wool and then clean with a cleanser like Comet etc.
I know this will make some of ya go " " but, I NEVER pre-heat the blank.
I lay the PNP on it, posistion it and the let it rip with the iron......no problems.

[Somicide]

check out tonepad's photo essay; very helpful.

http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=10&sequenceNo=1

[smank]

Instead of blue pnp sheets (I had a lot of problem with them), I use a cheap photo paper (Everyday HP Photo Paper, but you can try others).
I print the pcb with a normal laser printer, then I use the iron to press it on pcb (5-10 minutes): in this way the paper is attached on the copper side.
Now I wait 5-10 minutes, then I put the pcb (with the attached paper) in a small box full of water. After 5-10 minutes the water starts to wet the paper: so, you can start to eliminate it. Parts of the paper remains on pcb, but under the water, you continue to eliminate it delicatly with your fingers...
If there are deleted traces, you can mark them with a permanent black marker.

I've found this way to produce the pcb cheaper and affordable than pnp sheets.

I'd read this procedure on the web, but I haven't found the link....

[fenderislife]

I quote smank IN TOTO
I also use HP Everyday Photo paper (here in italy 4.99 euro - 25 A4 sheets). I's the one with 2/5 stars. I use it with an hp laserjet 1200. i print in 120 dpi. Sometimes i don't need permanent marker at all. IMHO you have to iron it for at least 10 minutes, being sure you ironed every part of it. First i clean the board with a product named sidol (used to clean aluminium, copper iron etc) and then with trieline. works fine. good luck

[Mark Hammer]

One of the harder things to learn about heat-based transfers is when they are "done" transferring.  That is, when you have ironned "enough".

Here's the criteria I've come to use.  Keep in mind that the toner laid down for the pattern should be pretty thick.  Setting the laser printer or photocopier for dark and/or higher contrast helps here.  Remember also that the relative thickness of the toner layer and the backing (whether paper or acetate sheets like PnP) is key in determining what a properly transferred layout will look like...from the back.

The Acetate sheets that PnP is made from, and the blue emulsion layer that the toner adheres to, are quite thin.  Thin enough that the toner layer - if properly laid down - is actually somewhat comparable in thickness.  Not AS thick, mind you, but easily 20-30% the thickness of the backing.  What that means is that as you apply heat to the PnP sheet with the iron and gently soften the acetate sheet at the same time as you are fusing the toner and copper, the sheet will "sag" just a little bit.  As this progresses, you will essentially see the pattern of the layout in light "relief"; i.e., slightly raised up.  The relief is because of the extra height added by the toner layer, compared to the parts without toner.  So, unless you can clearly see the outline of the entire layout in slight relief, you probably haven't completely transferred it.

Transferring does not begin and end with the heating part.  The cooling part is also important.  The toner has to "want" to stay on the copper more than the blue emulsion "wants" to stay on the acetate backing.  For this to happen, the board must be cooled down.  So, be patient or else have some sort of thick heat sinking available.  During the winter months, I simply place my freshly ironed boards/transfers up against the window pane to quickly lose the heat.  During the summer I have a thick hunk of aluminum.

Paper is a little more difficult to judge, largley because the thickness of the toner, compared to the paper backing and the shiny emulsion on top of the paper, is puny.  If it was as much as 5% the thickness of those two things put together, I'd be surprised.  The problem that presents is that the properly ironed on pattern will not show up in relief the way it would with PnP.  So, what I use to judge transfer is essentially the slightrubbing effect of the paper backing against the iron.  You know how people do "rubbings" of thick paper over gravestones and such, where the paper only picks up the charcoal or pencil that goes across the slightly raised parts of the gravestone?  Sort of like that.  Once the pattern is successfully transferred, you'll you a vague outline of the pattern on the paper.  This is really the effect of the paper buffing the underside of the iron, but the point is that, while the toner isn't thick enogh to be visible to the naked eye, it IS thick enough to make a slight and useful difference in what parts of the paper backing sag juuuuuuuust enough to not rub the iron.

Make sense?

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

i have never over-ironed paper. PNP will start doing some weird stuff when over heated, but paper doesn't seem to have this problem.

your experience may differ. 

[JisforJustin]

When I have the board heated up enough so the ink will transfer I quickly run it under cold waterand then peel it off. Most of it will transfer well this way. Whatever doesn't can be filled in with a white out pen. It's cheap and works great. Good luck!

Justin