Millenium Bypass .... Huh?

[Barcode80]

Okay, so I just assembled a Mosfet millenium bypass so I can power an LED, but no matter how many of the GEOFEX pages I look at, it is just not making sens to me how it is wired to the effect and/or switch. any help? I'm a visual learner, so pics would help.

[R.G.]

The Millenium in all its forms is a massively sensitive detector of the difference between a resistance to ground and the much greater resistance of an open circuit.

What makes it go is that the bypass switching is arranged so that when the effect is bypassed, the output of the effect is connected to the Millenium's control line. The output of the effect can have a big resistor to ground on it, and most effects already do this in the form of a pulldown resistor or volume control of some kind. When the effect is in operation, the output is switched to the signal jack, leaving the Millenium input open.

The Millenium senses when there is a resistor to ground and turns off the LED. When there is no resistance to ground, the output of the effect is busy providing sound, so the sensitive point on the Millenium is open, and so the Millenium turns the LED on.

Sorry about no pics.

[Barcode80]

so then would this be correct wiring?

[R.G.]

Yep, I believe it is.

[Barcode80]

okay, welli kind of hashed that together from various resources, so i'l keep it as a reference, but i'm not sure i'm understanding exactly how it works. i would just say "who cares? it works!" but since i'm a novice i want to make sure i can troubleshoot a millenium circuit just like any other circuit.

[R.G.]

That's a good attitude. If you keep that up you won't be a novice long.

Milleniums are best tested separately from the rest of the circuit. Build up the Millenium and power it from +9V and ground. Use a 1M resistor to connect and disconnect the control point from ground. If the LED switches on and off reliably when you do this, the Millenium is working fine.

In any troubleshooting, the first challenge is to divide what matters from what does not. Divide and conquer is the ultimate way to find problems.

[RedHouse]

No offense intended, but the Millenium Bypass is a solution to a non-problem.

Cute?, yes, ...works?, yes ...needed?...

[bluetubes]

I guess that would depend on where you are and what you have on hand.  I can get DPDT switches by the boat load here but nobody really carries 3PDT footswitches (to my knowledge) and I have to order them online.  So for me, they are a valid option when a 3PDT switch isn't in my inventory and I don't want to wait 2-3 weeks to get one.

Cheers
BT

[Threefish]

Barcode80 - It took me a while to work it out too, but it was worth it.
Redhouse, I'm guessing that you're able to easily get 3PDT footswitches, or you have a lot of patience. I'm too lazy to chase 3PDT's and then have to wait for them to be mailed to me, so I use 2PDT's.  I built a few non-bypass pedals, and then I built my first Mil 2 bypass. I now wouldn't do it any other way.
So R.G., thanks again from me.

[R.G.]

No offense intended, but the Millenium Bypass is a solution to a non-problem.
Cute?, yes, ...works?, yes ...needed?...

The Millenium Bypass comes from a time when 3PDTs were US$20 or more when you could even find them. In the six years since I came up with it, 3PDT alternate action switches have become available at much lower prices, less than half what they once cost. DPDT are much cheaper too.

Times change, costs change, availability changes.

No offense intended, but the same reasoning applies to 3PDTs - a solution to a non-problem.
Cute? Sure. I always liked fancy switches.  Works? Yeah. With enough contacts you can switch ANYTHING. Needed? Well, I can get the same result from a cheaper switch and some solid state parts. It depends on what you mean when you say "needed".

Which is better or more needed? It depends entirely on whether you have easy, cheap access to the parts for one or the other and if you understand how they work. They both do exactly the same job.

[Barcode80]

it seems to me that though it is not optimal for space (though the circuit is tiny), the parts cost to make the circuit and buy a dpdt is still significantly less than the cost of a 3pdt, especially if you aren't ready to make a significant financial committment to a bulk order yet. currently small bear sells 3pdt switches for 10.00 bucks a pop and i think Aron sells them for 6.25 with a min. order of 2. all the parts for my millenium bypass estimated around 3 bucks, and a dpdt is about 4 bucks. that's seven bucks for a millenium bypass with switch and a 10.00 or 12.50 investment for 3pdt switch setup. For newbs like me who don't want to sink in a lot of money yet, it's not even a choice, IMHO.

by the way, I strongly suggest true bypass. I've had some pretty tone-sucking COMMERCIAL pedals that I have used because I like the effect so much (DOD 585, i'm looking at you...), so i would hate to think that when given the option while making your own pedals that you would skip something you will probably want eventually anyway as your ear becomes more sensitive to things like that.

[R.G.]

I'll propose another solution out of "The Technology of Bypasses".

The issue with non-true-bypass setups is tone sucking, yes? So if we can make the pedal not suck tone, we don't need true bypass.

The simplest way to do this is with a high impedance buffer in front of the pedal, or by adapting the existing circuit to have high input impedance. The pedal then does not suck tone even in a non-true-bypass setup. I had a mod for wah pedals up at GEO for a while that hacked in a JFET and a resistor to add impedance to a wah. No tone sucking.

A notable example of this school of thought is Pete Cornish, who uses buffered bypass on all of his stuff.

[Barcode80]

hmm, that would be a nice post if someone wanted to give a rundown of the buffer circuit. Just so I'm clear, could someone post the procedure for wiring in an indicator LED in a circuit without true bypass?

[R.G.]

Give a read to "The Techology of Bypasses" GEO, http://www.geofex.com.

[Barcode80]

Cool, thanx. I've got to get out of this habit of just asking instead of researching myself or I am never going to learn all that I need to learn!

[sfr]

I find where the millenium bypass really shines for me (although I use it in it's traditional place as well) is with toggle switches when I also want an indicator.  I haven't seen any mini-toggles that are 3PDT, and in a crammed box, it's easier to stick a small, flat millenium PCB against the side of the box  than it is to use a large rotary or 3PDT stomp. 

[burnt fingers]

Barcode80 - It took me a while to work it out too, but it was worth it.
Redhouse, I'm guessing that you're able to easily get 3PDT footswitches, or you have a lot of patience. I'm too lazy to chase 3PDT's and then have to wait for them to be mailed to me, so I use 2PDT's.  I built a few non-bypass pedals, and then I built my first Mil 2 bypass. I now wouldn't do it any other way.
So R.G., thanks again from me.

Chase 3pdt's??  Aron sells them, small bear sells them.  I've ordered from both parties and didn't have to wait very long for either.

[boogietube]

Bad Bad  RedHouse!
The Milenium rocks! Period. No pop or noise- and the DPDT is still cheaper than a 3PDT.
YOU ROCK R.G.!!!
Sean

[343 Salty Beans]

it seems to me that though it is not optimal for space (though the circuit is tiny), the parts cost to make the circuit and buy a dpdt is still significantly less than the cost of a 3pdt, especially if you aren't ready to make a significant financial committment to a bulk order yet. currently small bear sells 3pdt switches for 10.00 bucks a pop and i think Aron sells them for 6.25 with a min. order of 2. all the parts for my millenium bypass estimated around 3 bucks, and a dpdt is about 4 bucks. that's seven bucks for a millenium bypass with switch and a 10.00 or 12.50 investment for 3pdt switch setup. For newbs like me who don't want to sink in a lot of money yet, it's not even a choice, IMHO.

by the way, I strongly suggest true bypass. I've had some pretty tone-sucking COMMERCIAL pedals that I have used because I like the effect so much (DOD 585, i'm looking at you...), so i would hate to think that when given the option while making your own pedals that you would skip something you will probably want eventually anyway as your ear becomes more sensitive to things like that.

You can buy 3PDT footswitches at Pedalpartsplus.com for 4.00 a pop. 

[Alex C]

Give a read to "The Techology of Bypasses" GEO, http://www.geofex.com.

excuss me genius