tonebone classic pdf...

[cbriere]

just found this:

www.dirk-hendrik.com/toneboneclassic.pdf

your comment on the use of the tube at low voltage?
2 triode in parrallel?

cbriere

[Pushtone]

While the starved tube type distortion is not new...

The Tonebone Classic is a currently available product and it's just plain un-cool to post it, even if you did reverse engineer it yourself.

I feel you should take this down ASAP.

[Pushtone]

Why not try the Real McTube instead?

[boogietube]

The Tonebone Classic is a currently available product and it's just plain un-cool to post it, even if you did reverse engineer it yourself.

I agree!

[lovekraft0]

All personal opinions about the ethics of reverse-engineering aside, this isn't tube distortion - this is total flummery!! The 12AX7 is being run as a dual parallel cathode follower (slightly less than unity gain), and the TL072 that's driving it shouldn't be able to hit it hard enough to clip the tube significantly (if at all) before it reaches its own voltage swing limits. This is the audio equivalent of homeopathic medicine - there's a tube in the signal path all right, it just doesn't do anything. What a load of crap!

[Dirk_Hendrik]

Ah, the Diystompboxes ethics vigilante again. That schemmo has been there for close to a year already, sitestatistics show loads of visitors coming through DIYstompboxes straight to the page where that schematic is, seemingly happy to learn.... Even better, since the start of this thread till this moment 131 people viewed that file so seemed interested and clearly did not openly diapprove and now, suddenly the ethics discussion starts? Current production so uncool to post? Give me a break will ye.

Flummery and crap, You may want to reconsider those remarks..
a) One cannot market a low voltage powered tube distortion pedal with the tube connected in the usual way. The BK Butler Tubedriver patents prohibit this. Therefore other solutions for tubedistortion must be found or BK Butler must be paid.  To name 2 of the solutions take a look at either the Fender RocProand Performer series amps or Vox Cooltron devices.

b) Why do we use tubes in the first place? Because of the sound or because of the way the tubes are connected?
The approach chosen by the Radial guys, similar to the Fenders mentioned above, as well as for for instance the non-US version of the Ibanez Tubeking is not to make use of the tube as an amplifier circuit. Since the tube is starved plate it will not have much interest in the signal anyway and what comes out of the tube in the first place needs to be gained tremendously to get a decent output signal.  The approach chosen here is to crate hard clipping by using a lot of Opamp gain and after that applying the tube, with it's non linear tubey characteristics extra strong at low voltage to act as a filter applying tube character to the clipped signal.

[Nashtir]

So this is a "tubed distortion"   
meaning that it's distorted and then tubed

[Xavier]

I can't see what is politically incorrect here.

Aren't the Rat, Tube Screamer ,Phase 90 and Wylde overdrive current production products as well? How many different layouts can you find here at the forum? if it has been reverse enginereed I can't see what's uncool with it.

I disagree.

[Auke Haarsma]

I own the Tonebone Trimode (two classics in one), but often loose volume when switching channels or switching between bypass and effect. Since tube apparantly acts like a fitler, I can disregard the tube as the cause of this problem?

[cbriere]

PLease look at the schematics....
How does the generation of VCC and VDD is done?
What is the actual values of the VCC and VDD, +/-12V ?

[RedHouse]

I can't see what is politically incorrect here.

Aren't the Rat, Tube Screamer ,Phase 90 and Wylde overdrive current production products as well? How many different layouts can you find here at the forum? if it has been reverse enginereed I can't see what's uncool with it.

I disagree.

Yes and the Crybaby, Vox 847, Vox Clyde McCoy, Univibe,  ...Ad Infinitum...Ad Nausium

The Tonebone Classic is a currently available product and it's just plain un-cool to post it, even if you did reverse engineer it yourself.

I feel you should take this down ASAP.

Pushtone ...this psuedo-morality issue has been done to death here over the years, give it a rest.

All personal opinions about the ethics of reverse-engineering aside, this isn't tube distortion - this is total flummery!! The 12AX7 is being run as a dual parallel cathode follower (slightly less than unity gain), and the TL072 that's driving it shouldn't be able to hit it hard enough to clip the tube significantly (if at all) before it reaches its own voltage swing limits. This is the audio equivalent of homeopathic medicine - there's a tube in the signal path all right, it just doesn't do anything. What a load of crap!.

I owned a Tonebone classic for about a month, when I recorded the unit I noticed it wasn't as great as when practicing through it, I then opened it up to find it was as a TS'ified tube-buffer box NOT a tube overdrive as advertised ...sold it on ebay next day. I agree it's a load-o-crap.

[lovekraft0]

The approach chosen here is to crate hard clipping by using a lot of Opamp gain and after that applying the tube, with it's non linear tubey characteristics extra strong at low voltage to act as a filter applying tube character to the clipped signal.

I'm not convinced that a starved-plate cathode follower generates any significant non-linearities even vaguely similar to those of an overdriven triode gain stage used at proper voltage - I'm also not convinced that any such non-linearities wouldn't be completely swamped out of audibility by the opamp clipping preceding the tube stage. Having fiddled with this particular pedal for several days at my local music store, I can only say that even if the concept is valid, the execution in this case is almost as tubey as a TS-9. Just my two cents... YMMV.

[Dirk_Hendrik]

Suit yourself. It's not my design.
However the Tonebones have plenty of users because of that tubey character. If you say the principle cannot work that means that in your opinion a lot of Tonebone users are wrong.

I'm not convinced that a starved-plate cathode follower generates any significant non-linearities even vaguely similar to those of an overdriven triode gain stage used at proper voltage.

I guess that you'll agree with me that when a low anode voltage is applied to a tube the tube will be working in it's extreme-non linear range of it's characteristic?  The range we'll never choose for designing a tube amplifier stage since the amplification is not worth mentioning meaning the only thing you'll have is... distorted signal.

By the way,
Downloadcounter went up to 227 since the start of this thread. Compare that to the 29 hits on that file in the whole of october.

[Pushtone]

Ah, the Diystompboxes ethics vigilante again.

First off I'm sorry to have confused the poster with the source of the schem.

When a poster wanted the Klon schem everybody here said
it was un-cool and defended the owner saying things like
"it's a small company and don't want to see his legs knocked out from underneath."
I'm confused.  Why doesn't that apply to Tonebone?

The Tonebone folks are a small company, 20 employees! Why not give them the same courtesy as Klon.
They are a rarity. A CANADIAN company and actually makes their products in CANADA. That is not a cheap thing to do.
This post, in a small way, just chips away at that kinda work ethic and is just the thing that will drive the Tonebone folks to offshore production.



Dirk, hosting it on your web page is one thing.
But I feel posting it in a forum is just not right and the post should be deleted.
Let people find it for themselves.
There is this thing call Google.com and I hear its really going to take off one of these days. 

[Pushtone]

I own the Tonebone Trimode (two classics in one), but often loose volume when switching channels or switching between bypass and effect. Since tube apparantly acts like a fitler, I can disregard the tube as the cause of this problem?

that happened to mine as well. Its the switch. I was told they had a bad run of switches.
Call tonebone and they will send you a new switch or fix it for you.

[Pushtone]

By the way,
Downloadcounter went up to 227 since the start of this thread. Compare that to the 29 hits on that file in the whole of october.

This thread should be deleted because that's exactly what I'm talking about.

The question about starved tube distortion in the original post could have been asked without the link to your RE schem.

Heck, the poster could have just searched the forum and found the answer instead of starting a new thread! 

Lazy and wrong.

[Gilles C]

PLease look at the schematics....
How does the generation of VCC and VDD is done?
What is the actual values of the VCC and VDD, +/-12V ?

It is produced by a discrete rail-splitter.

Check this

http://tangentsoft.net/elec/vgrounds.html

With a +12V, you are producing a +/-6V.

Now, I won't get into the ethical side of the thing (posting the schematic) but I was wondering if somebody took the time to listen to the soundclips on the Tonebone's site.

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-classic-sounds.htm

IMHO, the thing seems to sound better than some other boxes that I heard on some other sites, with or without tubes. One thing for sure, it doesn't make the guitar sound bad...

Gilles

[hank reynolds 3rd]

I'm gonna have to agree with Pushtone...
if some of EH/Z vex etc etc products are still in production and their schems are kept off this forum,the same should apply to the toneBone ones,regardless of how much status their name holds........

[jimbob]

Thanks for the info. Very cool. If I were to judge the ethics of posting this I would also have to go into it about a dozen others that are posted here all the time in current production. 

[cbriere]

the only way to protect a really novel circuit is by
intelectual property (filling for patent).

I assume that if i can find this schem. (just put "tonebone classic schematics"
in google ) anybody can, so....

But anyway, Aron can remove the link if he wants.

My intent was to have input on the use of the tube for
distortion effect.