VOX Clyde McCoy Wah-Wah resissue? any good?

[ulysses]

hey guys

does the vox Clyde McCoy Wah-Wah reissue really sound like the original or is it just another wah rebadged with cheap components? similar circuitry, but definitely not the same?

my main conscern is the inductor. it doesnt look like the "stack of quarters" type like the one on the RM Red Lion.

cheers
ulysses

[jonathan perez]

it doesnt use the correct value inductor.

the pot is junk, and not all of the values are correct.



just an excuse for VOX to slap an expensive name on itself, again.

[tcobretti]

Does anyone actually have the schem for the v848?  I've never seen one.

[dstrats]

Hi all,

I realize this post is 2 yrs old but being that I searched for this particular model on this forum and this is the only post that comes up, here we go:

For all those who haven't seen one internally, here you go:





I've owned this wah since '04 or '05. Within the 1st year of owning this pedal the pot died. I replaced it with a Fulltone pot. It employs the reissued FASEL inductor. It has 3 transistors. One closes to the induct. is a MPSA13-150. The other two are a MPSA18-040. I would always use the USA made V847 for years. Well, one day the V847 was picking up radio transmissions, and being that at the time I knew nothing thing about repairing and soldering, I sold it and bought the Clyde reissue V878. I thought at the time that the V878 was more vocal than the V847. It might very well be but since I sold the V847 I never got a chance to compare. I was happy with the wah but it never quite sounded like that Hendrix wah and yes, I play strats and have a Marshall Plexi. It sounded OK, but not that classic rich wah sound that Vox claimed it would have, but decent sounding. BTW, I can't find a schematic for this wah, sorry.

Well, there's my review of it for all those who where wondering about the V878. Of course they've been discontinued so if you want one you have to eBay for it.

So, now the tech and mod stuff. I need to replace the switch due to the fact it's failing. I want to put a "Cliff" 3PDT for T-B. It supposedly was wired T-B OEM with a 2PDT, but I still heard a tone loss when bypassed. Is that a good switch, the "Cliff", to use? I have the instructions on how to install this new switch but I have read that when a wah gets T-B'ed it suffers from lowered volume when switched on. Do I need to install a trim pot on one of the resistors, I think the one next to the 1st transistor to adjust this level. I just wanna know if I have the right thing in mind, or can I just leave it alone?

Also, if I placed BC109s' (NTE123A is the equivalent) in all 3 positions, would it help the sound of the wah?

I thanks you all in advance for the tips and I hope I helped some folks who wondered about this wah.

Take care all!!!

[zombiwoof]

A couple of notes here.  Don't use the 3PDT in the wah, use the Carling DPDT, unless you're putting in an LED, too.  It will hold up in a wah better than the 3PDT.  Also, I wouldn't use NTE devices myself, but BC109B's in the range of 350-400 hfe are supposed to be good.  The MPSA18's that are in there are just too high gain to sound like a vintage Clyde McCoy, their the same transistors that Dunlop uses in their wahs, and the Vox 847, so replacing them is a good idea.  The Vox Clyde McCoy and the V847 were both made by Dunlop, so that is not a surprise that they used those trannies.  The new Vox 847A is made in China.  The Clyde McCoy is not made any more.

Good luck with your mods, I would look at the Clyde McCoy pages at Fuzz Central if I were you, it shows the components in the original, and you can see what parts they changed in the Vox wah.

Al

[petemoore]

  You can't get me started on wah pots very easily, they seriously inhibited my urge to wah when I tried 'em.
 Nice case.
 Circuit board makes low noise and wah-sound circuit?...not much else to it beyond the tuning, I didn't feel the need to tune the new wah circuits, YMMV, so will the board need tuned, can the board be easily tuned would be the first to questions to answer about the PCB. It's intermediate IIRC to create a wah circuit board, made easily tweeked, not that I'm necessarily suggesting that [having done it a couple times].
 Inductor, Fasels are fine inductors...I've had ptfffphpht inductors ['wrong' inductance, thanks anyway...], these R/Y fasels can make good wah sounds [reportedly/IMLimitedE].
 A wah pot ensures a case of unreliable wahs, along with any sad, lost, historical wah tuning efforts...only silver lining being the tuning process knowledge will remain.  
   
 
 

[zombiwoof]

Since I once had a real Vox Clyde McCoy that I bought as a kid (why did I sell that?), and it was the best sounding wah I ever played, I decided to follow the schematic for the Clyde McCoy wah at Fuzz Central, change the transistors to BC109B's in the 350-400 hfe range, and change the other components in my V847 that were different to the Clyde values (it's really only a couple of resistors, the trannies, and changing the inductor to a Halo is a good idea (although I haven't done that yet, I'm either going with the Whipple, or the Area 51).  I also changed the .01uf caps to the original type (polystyrene), but this probably isn't required, just something I wanted to do.  I figured I would get it back to the Clyde circuit, and then tweak it if I thought it needed it.  I think this is a good idea before you start changing components for more bass, less distortion, Q factor, etc.   Of course I also put a true bypass switch in it too.  I would recommend this route to anyone, so you have a good basis to start from.   It's really not that much work to get it to the Clyde circuit.  I'm almost there, it sounds much better now, and I think after the inductor change it will be where I want it to be.

Here's the Fuzz Central Clyde McCoy page, if you haven't seen it yet:

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mccoy.php

Al

[dstrats]

Hey y'all,

Thanks for the reply "zombiewoof", and your input. Thanks for the link too, I'll check that out.

So, the Cliff 3PDT is bad, huh? In terms as they don't hold up well. Man. Well, OK then, I'll get the OEM DPDT switch, even though I was still able to hear a bypassed tone loss. I wasn't going to use it for an LED.

Guess I'll order 3 BC109s' on eBay, although I'm using NTE123A (USA ver. of BC109s') in my Fuzz Face mod and it sounds great, to me at least. But for the wah, I'd like to get that classic wah tone so I guess I'll get the real deal. I found out that Dunlop was making Vox wahs recently. Kinda broke my heart to find that out. I was fooling myself that me being loyal to Vox was getting better quality then the "cookie cutter" stomp-boxes from Dunlop. Oh well.

Not sure if I'll bother with the inductor. Not sure how the reissued FASAL compare to the original FASAL but I think just changing a few things will help. Did the original Clyde have 3 transistors? Every '80s to late '60s wah pic I've seen only have 2 transistors.

Anyway, thanks again. Take care!!!

[Joe Hart]

I think one of the three transistors is for the buffer, so it's not really part of the Wah circuit.
-Joe Hart

[zombiwoof]

Hey y'all,

Thanks for the reply "zombiewoof", and your input. Thanks for the link too, I'll check that out.

So, the Cliff 3PDT is bad, huh? In terms as they don't hold up well. Man. Well, OK then, I'll get the OEM DPDT switch, even though I was still able to hear a bypassed tone loss. I wasn't going to use it for an LED.

Guess I'll order 3 BC109s' on eBay, although I'm using NTE123A (USA ver. of BC109s') in my Fuzz Face mod and it sounds great, to me at least. But for the wah, I'd like to get that classic wah tone so I guess I'll get the real deal. I found out that Dunlop was making Vox wahs recently. Kinda broke my heart to find that out. I was fooling myself that me being loyal to Vox was getting better quality then the "cookie cutter" stomp-boxes from Dunlop. Oh well.

Not sure if I'll bother with the inductor. Not sure how the reissued FASAL compare to the original FASAL but I think just changing a few things will help. Did the original Clyde have 3 transistors? Every '80s to late '60s wah pic I've seen only have 2 transistors.

Anyway, thanks again. Take care!!!

Dunlop doesn't make the Vox wahs any more, they made the V847 and V848 (Clyde McCoy) wahs in the past.  Only the V847A is being made now (the one with the power jack) and it is made in China.

Only two of the transistors are in the actual wah circuit (as Joe points out) and only those need to be changed to BC109B's (don't just get BC109's, they might not be in the good range of 350-400 hfe, even if you get BC109B's measure them to be sure, best to buy more than you need and pick the ones closest to that range).  The "B" suffix means they are preselected to a medium gain range.  If you buy unselected BC109's, you might have to go through a bunch to find some that are close to that gain reading.   I wouldn't change the third transistor if you're keeping the buffer, it will change how the buffer works.  The original pedals only had the two transistors because they didn't have a buffer in them.

As for the switch, the Cliff and other 3PDT switches are fine in most pedals, but it has been noted that in a wah they don't hold up as well as a good (Carling) DPDT switch.  And you don't need the extra poles that the 3PDT switch has anyway, unless you are adding an LED to the wah.  In that case, a 3PDT switch will be your only option, unless you use the Millenium Bypass method.  You can use a 3PDT if you want, but it may not last as long as the DPDT switch.

Al

[dstrats]

Dunlop doesn't make the Vox wahs any more, they made the V847 and V848 (Clyde McCoy) wahs in the past.  Only the V847A is being made now (the one with the power jack) and it is made in China.
Al

Hi all, thanks again for the replies and the info about the third transistor and why it's there. Going by my pic of the board, I'm guessing the one closes to the FASEL, MPSA13-150, is for the buffer. The other two, MPSA18-040 are for the wah circuit, so those can be changed to BCs'. If I do install the 3PDT for true bypass, do I leave the buffer alone? I'm assuming that buffer circuit is for the bypass mode. Al, I appreciate your input concerning the 3PDT not lasting that long. I ordered a DPDT too. I may just hold on to the Cliff... maybe put in my modded Fuzz Face... I don't know.    I looked at the original Clyde schematic on Fuzz Central and I gotta say, it was so much simpler back in the day. If you look at my board there's crap all over. Not sure what I can do to make it an exact copy with my board. I'd be better off getting a board etched and build my wah from scratch, but I don't know how to etch a PC board so I guess I'll try to improve the wah I have. 

I know Dunlop no longer makes the Vox, but knowing that they made my V878 and my old (late '90s circa) V848 bothered me a bit, you know? Thanks for the tips on selecting BC109s'. I guess it would be good to get a bunch and sort through 'em. I know eBay sells a bulk amount of BC109s'. Also, I'll search for 109Bs'.

Thanks again guy, y'all rock! I'll keep you informed concerning my wah mods if ya'll like. I'm waiting for my switch currently. Then I'll get some real 109s'. 

[petemoore]

  Pretty much it then.
  If the pot holds up is it any good, probably sounds pretty good ?
  Board, not too hard to come up with one of these.
  It's the case and the gears that are not easily DIYable.
  Check at Small Bear for parts, I guess it's build another or it sounds pretty good.

[zombiwoof]

Dunlop doesn't make the Vox wahs any more, they made the V847 and V848 (Clyde McCoy) wahs in the past.  Only the V847A is being made now (the one with the power jack) and it is made in China.
Al

Hi all, thanks again for the replies and the info about the third transistor and why it's there. Going by my pic of the board, I'm guessing the one closes to the FASEL, MPSA13-150, is for the buffer. The other two, MPSA18-040 are for the wah circuit, so those can be changed to BCs'. If I do install the 3PDT for true bypass, do I leave the buffer alone? I'm assuming that buffer circuit is for the bypass mode. Al, I appreciate your input concerning the 3PDT not lasting that long. I ordered a DPDT too. I may just hold on to the Cliff... maybe put in my modded Fuzz Face... I don't know.    I looked at the original Clyde schematic on Fuzz Central and I gotta say, it was so much simpler back in the day. If you look at my board there's crap all over. Not sure what I can do to make it an exact copy with my board. I'd be better off getting a board etched and build my wah from scratch, but I don't know how to etch a PC board so I guess I'll try to improve the wah I have. 

I know Dunlop no longer makes the Vox, but knowing that they made my V878 and my old (late '90s circa) V848 bothered me a bit, you know? Thanks for the tips on selecting BC109s'. I guess it would be good to get a bunch and sort through 'em. I know eBay sells a bulk amount of BC109s'. Also, I'll search for 109Bs'.

Thanks again guy, y'all rock! I'll keep you informed concerning my wah mods if ya'll like. I'm waiting for my switch currently. Then I'll get some real 109s'. 

The buffer is Dunlop's solution to the tone-sucking that stock vintage-type wahs exhibit, instead of just true-bypassing them they decided to add the input buffer.  Some people remove the buffer when installing a true bypass switch, some like to leave it.  Here's some info on doing true bypass to a Dunlop wah, I would think your wah is similar but take a look and see if it is or not:

http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/mods/dunlop.htm

There may be a site out there that talks about true bypassing your exact wah, but I'm not sure about that.  There is some good info in that article however, and the other articles on true bypass on Stinkfoot's site.  And yes I'm sure the MPSA13 would be buffer transistor.  Dunlop always uses MPSA18's in their wahs in the main wah circuit.

Good luck,
Al