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DIYstompboxes.com  |  DIY Stompboxes  |  Building your own stompbox  |  Right effects sequence on a pedalboard 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard  (Read 4724 times)
arma61
Posts: 1123


Armando C.


Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« on: March 22, 2007, 04:06:19 PM »

Hi after having searched this site and internet I've decided to have my pedalboard with effects in the following sequence

1) Volume regulator pedal (build into a sewing machine pedal)
2) Wha pedal (still to be purchased/build)
3) Compressor - (Dynacomp home made)
- Fuzz face (home made AC128 positive ground, not sure yet about its position in the chain)
4) Ds-1 (you all know about it!)
5) Overdrive (Danelectro Fab series)
6) Chorus (Danelectro Fab series)
7) Flange  (Danelectro Fab series)
Cool Echo (home made rebote 2 from Tonepad)

Now the word to the experts!
What do you think about this chains, changes ? suggestions ?

Thx for help


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"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen
Ben N
Posts: 3329

Ben N. - really! Now Israel, once Baltimore


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 04:24:45 PM »

First, I would move the "volume regulator", which I assume to be a simple 1-pot volume control in a pedal (right?). Depending on how you intnd to use it, I would put it either between the compressor and the fuzz face or right before the echo. You want to have the strongest possible signal going into the Wa and comp, since both are potentially noisy, and you don't gain anything by cutting volume ahead of them rather than behind. Then the queston is whether you want to use this pedal to control the distortion from your fuzz, distortion and overdrive. ersonally, I find that kind of thing redundant, since there is already a volume knob on the guitar, so I put the vol pedal as late in the chain as ossible, but before the echo, so that it doesn't unnaturally cut off your repeats.

I would put the fuzz face first--FFs don't play well with other things ahead of them. I've nevr played a compressor into a FF, so I don't kow about that.

Order of distortions: whatever works for you. If you never use them together, then it makes no difference. Some people use an averdrive to kick a distortion in the nuts for a super-sustainy (and noisy) sound. Some like the OD after the distortion so you can use it as a lead boost. Keep in mind that gnerally boosting the input of a distortion pedal will increase sustain and saturation, but not volume, and vice versa for the output.

Conventional wisdom is to put the comp before the dostortion/od, but try it the other way. If you likee "touch sensitivity", finger dynamics or whatever you call it, with say an overdrive ahead of a compressor you can get a variety of tones and distortion characteristics by varying pick attack and the guitar vol knob, while the compressor keeps everything at a >< steady volume level.

Finally, if your OD or distortion are set for a big volume boost, consider putting them after the chorus & flange so as not to overdrive their inputs.

There is more information about this at Harmony Central and the Hoffman Amps site.
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d95err
Posts: 689


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 02:13:19 AM »

The volume pedal and Fuzz Face is the tricky part. I'm assuming you want the volume pedal to control the amount of distortion (since you want it first). If you just want to control the voume level, it should go at the end (but before the Echo).

So, you probably want to be able to contol the amount of distortion from the Fuzz with the volume pedal. A passive volume pedal would work for this. An active volume pedal, or a buffered pedal before the Fuzz would not work well (the Fuzz Face uses its low input impedance to reduce treble. With a buffered signal there is no treble loss, so it becomes way too harsh). However, putting a passive volume pedal first in the chain would cause sucking...

Also, the compressor should preferably go before the volume pedal, otherwise they will be "fighting" each other with the compressor trying to make up the level lowered by the volume pedal.

Very difficult to get an optimal setup when using buffer-hostile effects like a Fuzz Face or Rangemaster. Perhaps you could add some kind of true bypass loop swith to make sure there is a buffer first when not using the Fuzz Face.
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Mark Hammer
Posts: 21967


WWW
Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2007, 07:55:45 AM »

I don't think there is any "correct" order, although there are orders which result in more and less noise, as well as orders that bring out the best in certain pedal combinations.  Ultimately, it depends on what you like to do and how you intend to use the pedals in question.

If there is anything I would change, It might be to stick #2 after #3, stick #4 (overdrive) before the Fuzzface and DS-1, and the volume pedal after the various distortions. 

Why?  Pushing any distortion pedal harder can often yield some pleasingly sick and over-the-top tones.  If you stick the overdrive before the more serious distortion pedals you get to do that.  Sticking the overdrive after them eliminates that third option (overdrive->fuzz->demented fuzz).

Compressors amplify whatever noise is presented at their input, and wahs have never been known for being dead silent.  Therefore placing the compressor after the wah will produce a more silent signal path when both are on and you're not playing.  As well, different wah settings produce different signal leves, and are likely to confuse the envelope detector in the compressor a little.  So, more consistent and predictable compression, plus less noise, if compressor precedes wah.  However, I can imagine reasons for wanting it the other way.

People use echoes, distortions, and volume swells in a wide variety of ways.  Personally, I love being able to fade in a nasty tone and have it echo.  If the volume pedal goes before the distortions, the note won't start out nasty, but will only become nastier as you feed the distortions more input signal.  That's one way of doing it, I suppose, but dist->vol ped lets you pull the footpedal back, slam the strings hard, and gently fade it in.  Again, an aesthetic choice rather than an electronic necessity.
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slacker
Posts: 5449

Ian M. - England


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 12:05:51 PM »

I know conventional wisdom is too put delays after modulated effects but I personally prefer it the other way round. Putting the delay first means the repeats get processed by the rest of the pedals which makes the sound more interesting to my ears.
I'd agree with Mark about the volume pedal, if you just want to use it to control the volume and as a mute then stick it before the delay. I'd probably put it after the distortion pedals though, so you can do swells and thing through the modulation pedals, depends on how creative you want to be with it.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 12:11:46 PM by slacker » Logged
Mark Hammer
Posts: 21967


WWW
Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 12:19:33 PM »

That's why I distinguish between an aesthetic choice and an electronic necessity.  There are some things that are recommended simply because the quality of the signal is optimized when in that order.  And there are other things which make no difference in the quality of the signal, but simply make certain kinds of sounds possible.  Easy to make some relatively firm rules about the first category.  Impossible to be hardheaded about the second.

Of course, that's one reason why I favour and encourage things like loop selectors and order flipping.  A loop-flipping pedal is something you can use to juggle the order of whatever gets plugged into each send/receive loop.  That could be a single pedal in each loop, a single pedal in one and combo in the other, or combos in each.  Unfortunately, if you already have enough pedals that order flipping is worth considering, then filling up valuable pedalboard space with an order-flipping pedal is probably not what you want to do.  Neverthless, its nice to be able to simply bypass the question of what order is "best" and have alternate orders available to you, each with their own special charm and possibilities.
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Hanglow
Posts: 507


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 01:34:57 PM »

on a similar note to this thread, (slight thread hijack, sorry!) I'm putting a number of effects into slightly bigger enclosures I got cheap from rapid - I've got three and they will take two each.

so I was wondering in which order I would put them in,as I'm only going to have one in and one out on each box.

I was going to have a fuzz box of sorts, I've got an easy face and an old chool fuzz, I was thinking of putting the old school fuzz first, followed by the easyface, I think I saw this mentioned on another thread as a good idea but can't find the thread in question icon_sad. Or do you guys think this order would not matter much? The easyface is the "heavier" fuzz

Also, I was going to combine my orange squeezer (first) with a nurse quacky (second), best order do you think?

the other I have yet to decide, what to put in it, I'm going to build a red llama and something else, any suggestions? Grin

I suppose I should really test them out out of the boxes in the different orders to see what I like best,  icon_lol

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arma61
Posts: 1123


Armando C.


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2007, 01:58:16 PM »

Thanks to everybody involved in this thread, I can see (and I appreciate) your knowledge in this matter, I'm almost new in building and combining effects, I used to play guitar (not even too well!) connected to my pc and alone, now with an "old friend" (he's 50 I'm 46) we are "going back" in the passed years and we meet one time per week in a garage, to play some "old" good stuff (one for all Hotel California!). So it's time now to build my pedalboard its name will be KAOS I'll post some picture when ready and when I know how to do it (can somebody explain it).

Thanks for your suggestion, I think the best I can do is to make fist the chain on my table according to all info's I have and change it till I get what I need, but... do I really know what I need..                                                    to be continued.......
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"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen
Hanglow
Posts: 507


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2007, 02:34:49 PM »

to put up pictures go to www.imageshack.us and upload it there. It'll come up with a number of links that you can copy and past into a post that'll display the picture. Or insert the link to the picture you uploaded by pressing that button then placing the link in the middle of the text
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Mark Hammer
Posts: 21967


WWW
Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2007, 02:36:25 PM »

on a similar note to this thread, (slight thread hijack, sorry!) I'm putting a number of effects into slightly bigger enclosures I got cheap from rapid - I've got three and they will take two each.

so I was wondering in which order I would put them in,as I'm only going to have one in and one out on each box.

I was going to have a fuzz box of sorts, I've got an easy face and an old chool fuzz, I was thinking of putting the old school fuzz first, followed by the easyface, I think I saw this mentioned on another thread as a good idea but can't find the thread in question icon_sad. Or do you guys think this order would not matter much? The easyface is the "heavier" fuzz

Also, I was going to combine my orange squeezer (first) with a nurse quacky (second), best order do you think?

the other I have yet to decide, what to put in it, I'm going to build a red llama and something else, any suggestions? Grin

I suppose I should really test them out out of the boxes in the different orders to see what I like best,  icon_lol
From purely a noise standpoint, compressor before filter, and quietest fuzz first.  All distortion circuits have lots of gain, and the moment you stop playing, the second one in line is applying all that gain to whatever hiss is coming out of the first one.
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Hanglow
Posts: 507


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2007, 02:43:23 PM »

cheers mark, makes sense.

I think there's space for three fuzzes in the box now after looking at it  icon_twisted What a shame, I'll have to make another one  icon_mrgreen
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arma61
Posts: 1123


Armando C.


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2007, 04:33:14 PM »

Hi, here's some pictures of my pedalboard again under construction but close to the end

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3493/p2203072321fz0.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3985/p24030723191od2.jpg

Still to decide how to connect all the effects but found that this physical position is good for select almost every effect without interfere with other. To be continued....

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"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen
David
Posts: 2148

David M


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 10:47:02 AM »

What are your platforms made out of?  Plexiglass?  Lexan?
How is the upper deck supported?  From what I see, I'm not sure how it will survive being stepped on.

Haven't seen a double-decker that small before...  I'd be interested to know how strong those platforms are and how much they flex.  I've been considering expanding my ramp-style pedalboard from 21" wide to 30" wide, and was planning to build it from 3/8" plywood  since that's about the only flex-free substrate I had immediate access to.  I've also given some thought to making a platform from a sandwich of foam core board and fiberglass.
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lethargytartare
Posts: 261


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 11:39:53 AM »

you got lots of good guidance already, but the mnemonic I ran across and has worked well enough for me:

Which  -> Wah
Chain  -> Compressor
Of     -> Overdrive
Effect -> EQ
Pedals -> Pitch
Makes  -> Modulation
Life   -> Level
Easy   -> Echo

Cheers!

ltt
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chillhuman
Posts: 36


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 11:54:50 AM »

My pedal board is set up

guitar -> distortions -> comp -> filtering -> delay -> volume -> loop pedal -> amp

This way, you can turn on a distortion pedal with any settings and the compressor will get you dialed in volume wise. Also, you can roll back the volume on the guitar to get some tone cut and a drop in distortion, or roll back your tone control for creamy distortion tones.

One thing I found extremely helpful for practicing lead was a loop pedal. Just record a set of changes, and play them till the lines are clean and interesting.
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arma61
Posts: 1123


Armando C.


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 12:48:58 PM »

Hi David

here some picture good of it, 99% completed ( I did it something wrong with Imageshack, so just copy and paste the link)

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5636/pict0003xu8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6979/pict0004ei3.jpg

yes, board is made of plexiglass, the upper deck is supported with 6 small cilinders of aluminium fixed with screws and nuts,  I still have to test it when playing, it could  flex a little bit that's why I choose that "strategic" position of the effects. On the top layer you can see from right to left

compressor - I normally turn on this for almost all the time
empty box - still to decide what to do, I think something like a "sinthetizer" or octave - so low use of it
echo - again low use
flanger (I hate using it) again low use

so even if it will flex a little, the use of the top layer will be limited, also the 3pdt switch are closed to the point where the cilinders stand and not it the middle of 2 of them, so it really should flex very little.

on the lower deck you can see

empty space for wah pedal
volume pedal made with a sewing machine pedal (still to be filled, at the monte it is just 2 jack-sockets connected)
distorsor
overdrive
chorus
these on the lower deck are the most used, at leasy by me!

all things powered with a 12V 2A sealed battery reduced to 9V, so just "plug and play"!!!

I'll away for the whole week, so I will really test it next tuesday, I will leave comment about its hardiness

Arma61
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"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen
arma61
Posts: 1123


Armando C.


Re: Right effects sequence on a pedalboard
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 01:04:23 PM »

Hi all. So I've tested and hardiness seem to be OK, also top layer is very easy to approach by foot. I've added on the back 6 sockets connected to some fx in/out, so that I can change the signal path with jumpers. Here's a picture of my "creature". Still to decide what to put in the empty box, cigarette & lighter!?, chocolate, or some goods synth effects?!?, any suggestion ??. I play also keyboard and I like the synthesized sounds, I wish I could reproduce a sound like old Moog!!

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7995/pedalboardyl6.jpg

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"it's a matter of objectives. If you don't know where you want to go, any direction is about as good as any other." R.G. Keen
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