Thomas Organ wah, sound clips, notes

[mcasey1]

When I received this wah, it needed to be reworked.  Every wire was replaced as well as the battery snap, then an output buffer was installed.  The two .01uf caps that were present were cheap polyester films.  I changed them to polystyrene like the big .22uf caps and recorded a soundclip for the before and after comparison.  All the resistors were replaced by a previous owner, as well as the electrolytic cap.  It still has the "stack of dimes" inductor and original pot.  Here is a picture:

And a soundclip, give it time to load so it isn't jumpy.
http://media.putfile.com/Polywah
First time through with the polyester, second time through with the polystyrene.

[runmikeyrun]

wow, WAY cool!  I found an old thomas on the side of the road a few years back... a quick roadside molestation and i ganked the poweramp section, 2x6l6.  I stuck an extra gain stage in there, changed the outputs to russian 5881s (the missile guidance ones) and man it really fuzzes out.  Plus it has a really cool tube called an 0A3 that doesn't do anything with the poweramp but lights up really really cool.  As for sounds, think old 60s garage stuff like the Sonics or the lead parts on CCR Susie Q.  I play it through an old cab w/ 2 altec square magnet 12s.  It has a horrible motorboat and i can't figure out the schematic vs. the multisection cans (the schematic is different in some other parts so i don't want to rely on it) so i've got to pay someone to do it for me.  Lack of $$$ has left her sitting for over a year now

I was at a salvage store last weekend, one day only 1/2 off sale, a beat up Hammond organ that WORKS w/ 2xel84 amp.  $35... wife said i have too much "junk" and we can't afford any more.  There was also 3 12ax7s and 12au7s that were hammond brand but made in holland... amperex/bugle boys!!  Argh.  Man i was really tempted to slip those into my pocket i tell ya.  Never shoplifted a day in my life and didn't want to go to jail over a few tubes.  Damn.  Even the old "but i can keep the 3 tubes i want and sell the rest on ebay for more than $35" didn't do it.  I'm still peeved about that! 

That old organ stuff is pretty cool to play with.  Nothing earth shattering but if you can score it for a few bucks or free definitely worth it.

[jonathan perez]

check this out, its a dunlop crybaby i bought last week on the bay for 30 bucks, in perfect (basically new) condition.



striking, isnt it? same wah, different brand.

the stack of dimes inductor measured at 460mH, 58 ohms.



low-ish S/N...id say we had a good week, my friend. 

[mcasey1]

I think there is a very discernible difference in sound with just the two caps changed to polystyrene.  It sounds clearer to me.  I thought it would be interesting to hear a before/after of just that small change.

I'm starting to think that my wah is a Dunlop manufacture Crybaby.  Probably the same model that you have TBOM.
I thought that the Thomas Organ was a wah circuit from the TO company that Dunlop turned into the crybaby.

[jonathan perez]

no, dunlop bought thomas organs wah rights. and used the remaining batch of boards/inductors before using their own.

[analog kid]

 I LOVE WAH RESEARCH AND DATA COLLECTION!!! when I went from good with a soldering iron as a kid TO modding and building my own effect and stuff I think I spent a solid year just studying all the old wah info I could collect from people.
  I chimed in here though because seeing these early "Dunlop" wahs reminds me of one part change that I never did find out anything about... Does anyone know anything about the type, time frame,etc.. of the tall skinny all black inductors that some early dunlops used?  they are about the size of a 25v large electrolytic cap.   feel sort of ceramic or some kind of plastic.  I've had one that has that Inductor and never seen any others, and I tell ya it's one of the best sounding  late Thomas / early (any) dunlop wahs I've ever heard so I have long thought that there is some magic to that inductor! (??)
  anyone
ps nice score guys, you beat me to that one "midway"!

[jonathan perez]

noone saw it coming, it was listed and looked like a brand new crybaby...which people arent too hot on, to begin with.

the inductor youre talking about, did it have a blue plastic coating around it at any time? a picture would be nice. an inductance/resistance measurement can do well, too. 

[Paul Marossy]

Are you sure that "stack of dimes" inductor isn't just a TDK 5103 with the top part removed?

[snoof]

I scored a Thomas just like Mcasey's for $50 quite a few years ago, it has the TDK inductor in it.  I've never owned the "stack of dimes" type, need to find one of those.  I've only tried the old Fasels, new Fasels, and the TDK.

[jonathan perez]

Are you sure that "stack of dimes" inductor isn't just a TDK 5103 with the top part removed?

im pretty sure...but, i dont have any tdk inductors to try. 


snoof, have you ever tried the halos?

[snoof]

I haven't.  are they still in production, or are they just in the old wahs??

[jonathan perez]

theyre definitely in old wahs, but ArielFX, Castledine, and Dr. Steam Whipple all make repros, Whipple being the least expensive of the bunch. you can find them on ebay, for 20 bucks. theyre the best for the money, and they sound perfect. hell, i use em. 

[analog kid]

No there's no sign of any blue "cover" or anything being on it. It's just a cylindrical  sort of grayish black  "can"  like a fat electrolytic cap.
Resistance on this one's 73.2kHz but I don't have Henry meter unfortunately  : (

Dr Steam Whipple!!??? what the.....?
No but I've tried about every other inductor out there as far as new repro halo's .  Castledine, Ariel fx , many Red/Yellow Fasels (which If you get the right one they are beautiful. I much prefer the toroidal which If I have been told correct is sort of ironic because none of the originals were of the toroidal type yet they claim both fasel models are as the originals were made.  but it really is alot nicer for any OD used at all and who doesn't use od sometimes? well if you do play clean wah always then the Yellow fasel interacts nicely with clean rather than dirty.   I don't care for his Wah much at all, due to the values he uses getting way to muddy , but F$llt#ne's Inductor IS the abosute best I've every heard!!! I mean that thing makes the most drastic difference just dropping a new inductor than any other type I've used.And very consistent from what I tell.
Too bad he stopped selling them indiv.and I've seen them being sold for like unbelievable $$ ( $130us IIRC    ) at diyparts sites I won't mention.  I was lucky to get my hands on before they became rarity though.
  --- NO WAY Paul! (??)  If there is a daggone  '03' stack o dimes underneath any of those wretched  TDK 5103's I've been chucking out for years I think I'll go stick my fingers in a rocking wah treadle right now!    no really... I don't believe so.  '5103' is named this for the 03's though. I think I read about how the production and materials changed when switching to the TDK manufacture. but don't recall details

I have never had an actual '03' inductor  however but I've had  '48' s in mine and think they sound quite good.   Does anyone know if the '03's as well as the '48's  are considered  Stack o Dimes?? I 've always called them that.   they look the same construction just a bit darker covering ,  slightly smaller and only have just the two pins on one side.      I THINK that the 48's are older than '03's as well . Since i've never seen the 48 in dunlop made wah's after the buy of TO.  But many with the '03' SOD.
               Some stuff to think on.

[jonathan perez]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.castledine/greenfuz/inductor.html

the "03" inductor measurement on that page is off by about 100mH...heads up!

the fasel inductor IS the stack of dimes...they often measured around the same values, for me. between 475 and 520mH.

also, ive got about 10 dunlop inductors that measure at around 550mH...which is over 100mH lower than most people think...they sound VERY good, similar to the Fulltone. er, i mean F#LL$@N*. 

dont knock the whipple 

have you tried area51's inductor? nothing classic sounding by any means, but definitely an upgrade to any wah ive dropped it in...which is odd, since the dunlop wahs inductors measured at 550-600mH, 18ohms, VS. area51's 600-620mH, 20ohms...(fatter sounding, almost not an upgrade...i supposed it depends on the wah.)

the fulltone inductor measures at random (inconsistant) values...i got one at 540mH, once...the one i have now is 524mH... the whipple's are always between 500mH and 510mH, for me. yes, there is an audible difference between 540/524 and 500 mH.

take a apart a TDK5103 inductor and find out! hell, id like to know. 

yes, theyre considered stack of dimes, based on cosmetic conjecture.

[Geoffrey Teese]

I could tell you about all of this stuff, but then I'd have to kill you. 

Of course, I've gone on record about a lot of this info anyway.  Boy damn, I should have kept my mouth shut all those years ago.

[jonathan perez]

well, i think its good to know when youre looking for a specific tone, you know? assuming you get the jist of what affects what. and i think all of us, myself included, appreciate the information you have provided us with in interviews and the threads you post on.

by the way, Geoffery, i said id write you a check for a grand when i become famous...well, how about 1,000 jelly beans?  (in reference to my job at jelly belly)

[sfx1999]

I wish my wah sounded like that.

Where can you buy a stack of dimes replica?

[Paul Marossy]

I still think it looks like a TDK 5103 with the top cover missing for whatever reason. I have a TDK equipped wah which I think sounds great, really great tone. I wonder if anyone has ever taken one apart to look at the inside?

On the Dunlop inductors, I think they sound pretty good. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, I think that people focus on the inductor too much. You really have to look at the total package in the inductor based wah pedal - there's more to the sound than just the inductor. 

[analog kid]

similar to the Fulltone. er, i mean F#LL$@N*.  
 yeah , sorry. I just dont ever know when It's ok to namedrop around here anymore (some folks get just plain rowdy and you never know who's lurking ; )  Even when it's matters of opinions being stated.   Don't like the FULLTONE Clyde  LOVE The Inductor though.  There I said it again

the fulltone inductor measures at random (inconsistant) values...

You see, that's why I said consistent "from what I can tell"  . See I'd only owned two of them so I guess that wasn't enough to base any such assumption on .

dont knock the whipple

NO , I wasn't!   new to me , never heard of them. so that was my humorous way (with a name like that , ya know?) of trying to get someone to elaborate and educate me on this one.   And  thanks for doing so! QUOTE : " the whipple's are always between 500mH and 510mH, for me."     WOW!!! I hope they are available cheaper than most others out there since I need an inductor for a customer right now and I'd love to use it as a chance to try one.

Nice to hear you chime in Geoffrey!  I of course learned most of the info that I have aquired ( and obviously since forgotten half as demonstrated here) about vintage wahs  by googling anything I could find that you've ever said about them.  so it's nice to get to learn via the hard work and digging that someone else has put into a particular subject matter which I realize you DID.  think you did more than dig IIRC you pried some of it right from the hands of the wah ministry of information themseleves   anyway It's good to get a chance to THANK someone for the research they have done which allows someone else to learn from . SO THERE.  You the man. . . The Wahman
 BTW  Geoffery,  What do you know about the little grashish/black  "can" inductor in the Dunlop wah I mentioned.  I used your pics at the mentioned link many times to compare various inductors and I'm familiar w/ all those pretty quickly upon seeing them. I knew though that it wasn't pictured , or mentioned anywhere that I could remember reading.  It really does sound good though , well the way the wah is tuned w/ it sure does , that's the key isn't it now.   Then again you don't list the "48" there either and I need to remember what the relation in materials/timeline is between the '48' and the '03' As well as IF THE "48" is considered a stack of dimes??    

Where can you buy a stack of dimes replica?

Well Stuart Castledine USED TO make one didn't he?? OR HOLD ON...Maybe It WAS Mr. Teese I'm thinking of who did that>?  Well 'far as that goes I guess Geoffrey would definitely know.    There's another '48' vs. '03' question...  If I recall correctly , I seem to remember that 'whoever' made the SoD' replica's for their wahs , that they preffered the '48' syle more and made them after those.   Was actually the statement that sent me in search of wah's with the '48' in them and a couple of NOS '48' style SoD's

whew long post

[mcasey1]

I'm not sure, at least I THOUGHT it was a stack of dimes from the look and comparison to other photographed "genuine" SODs.  At this point I really dont care, I just love the sound.  I think thats a good philosophy to have in this hobby.  Can anybody else hear the difference from the two recordings?