Author Topic: Moog schematics  (Read 5878 times)

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DWBH

Moog schematics
« on: May 07, 2007, 10:36:30 AM »
Moogerfooger schems? WherE?

Mark Hammer

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2007, 11:33:22 AM »
In their filing cabinet.

DO EXPECT to find schematics for pedals "floating around" when the pedals have a cheap retail price and the manufacturer expects someone else to do the servicing/repair.

DO NOT EXPECT to find schematics of pedals "floating around" when the manufacturer charges a premium price and expects to provide servicing/repair themselves.

On the other hand, there are many schematics floating around for different Moog synthesizer products over the years....just not the pedals.

DWBH

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 11:45:37 AM »
Exactly, I found schems for their synths but not for the pedals...

But than again, ZVex pedals are expensive (although not much as the Moog) and there are some things floating around in the web. But we can't compare 600$ pedals to 300$ pedals... :-[

GREEN FUZ

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 11:49:02 AM »
Tucked down Bob Moog`s underpants where NOOOBODY`S gonna find them!!! :icon_lol:

snufkin

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 01:29:42 PM »
sick  :P


I'm inexperienced but I'm sure instead of doing a Moog pedal look at some of the synth module schems on the net and build one of them that has similar features
easyface,phase 90,many fuzz faces,feedback looper,tremulus lune and so on soon to be ADA!

SeanCostello

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 03:07:52 PM »
Lots of CA3086 and LM13600 chips. If you are gonna do DIY, you can come up with a simpler design.

Besides, I keep having noise issues with my Moogerfooger LPF. Great sound, but now there is a whine in the sound, probably from the charge pump to produce a bipolar supply.

Sean Costello

QSQCaito

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Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 03:19:25 PM »
Very nice moog stuff in this page.
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/sound/synth/synthdata/16-moog-minimoog.html

schematics and layout for mini moog, micro mooog stuff to, could help.
D.A.C

analogguru

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 04:01:57 PM »
Quote
DO NOT EXPECT to find schematics of pedals "floating around" when the manufacturer charges a premium price and expects to provide servicing/repair themselves.

The biggest problem with most of the people is that they know so much what is not true.

http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/schematics/Moog_307A_2aPhaser.gif
http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/schematics/Moog_307A_2bPhaser.gif
http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/schematics/Moog_307A_3aPhaser.gif
http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/schematics/Moog_307A_3bPhaser.gif
http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/schematics/Moog_307A_3cPhaser.gif

I believe you only need to replace 2 of the CA3094 with 1 LM13600 and the CA 3046 with CA3086 - any problems ?

After looking at the schematic you will get a feeling about the difference between Moog and Zvex, even when both of them charge high prices.  One is clear: the 12-stage-phaser was not developed on the kitchen-table.

analogguru

Paul Perry (Frostwave)

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 05:27:41 PM »
Those 307A phaser circuits may or may not have anything to do with the current stompbox phaser bearing the name Moog.
And, one reason they are floating about, is that the company that made it went out of business twenty years ago.
There is no commercial relationship between the extinct original Moog company, and the present moog company (except that both of them, at some time, had the late Bob Moog as one of their designers).

SeanCostello

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 06:14:15 PM »
My guess is that the current Moog phaser is much simpler. Also, I would also guess that LM13600 chips are used for EVERYTHING. Bypass, phasing, VCLFO, resonance paths, you name it. The LPF I have uses the LM13600 for bypass (which I do not think is a good thing, as it is pretty noisy sounding with my amps), and the ring modulator uses the LM13600 for the ring modulation and squelch, which seems to work out, as it is very low noise.

It is probably a safe gess that the basic OTA-style phase shifting is the same in both the old and new Moog phasers.

Sean Costello

analogguru

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 09:01:22 PM »
Some time ago I had the chance to look inside a moogerfoooger phaser and wanted to trace the schematic and it did not appear to be simpler than the old 12-stage-phaser.  I had the impression that it is a modernized reiissue of the old circuit.  Duble-sided-PCB was full of components.  Finally I didn´t trace the schematic cause for the money it is sold it is not worth to "rebuild" it.  Sadly it is not a rack-unit, as a rack-unit it would have more commercial success.  For the guitarist it is too expensive and studio/synth guys don´t like stompboxes - but it is sounding amazingly, you can get an addict.

analogguru
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 09:09:38 PM by analogguru »

Mark Hammer

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2007, 04:11:21 AM »
Big difference may be the presence/absence of the limiter/compressor on the original Moog rackmount phaser.  I do not know if the Moogerfooger has a similar subcircuit.  As for complexity of the floor pedal vs the rackmount, well, there are concrete limits to how simple you can make an allpass filter based around an OTA.  Once you have 12 allpass stages, that circuit is going to look busy, no matter how you slice it.

http://modezero.com/moog-12-stage-phaser.htm
http://modezero.com/moogerfoogerphaser.htm

Other major differences include the substantially different sweep rates on the two products (10hz maz vs 250hz), and the rackmount's capability of selecting not only more phasing tap points (4, 6, 8, 10, 12) but also where the regeneration tap point is.

Certainly, the fact of being 12-stage units, and the fact of being OTA-based units, will create many commonalities in how they can sound, but the two are clearly different beasts.  Anyone looking at the scanned schems for the older rackmount unit surely has something delicious to look at, and a great source of information, but it is NOT the floor pedal and should not be confused with it.

I can not vouch for what anyone might have in their personal off-line collection, or what may or may not have been reverse engineered.  However, I stand by my assertion that in general one should not expect to see factory schematics in circulation for expensive, complex circuits that the manufacturer does not expect guys at the repair bench in your local music store to be working on. 

Doesn't matter if they are simple things like Cornish pedals, either.  If the manufacturer wishes to assert their "brand" by maintaining quality control over repairs and product performance, they keep the schem/information to themselves.  The alternative is that somebody with insufficient expertise attempts repairs/mods, and their poor work ends up being the first and only time somebody gets to hear that product.  Not a great advertisement.  In the case of things like Boss, DOD, etc., there are enough pedals in circulation and on display in stores that some local guy's poor soldering job is unlikely to form the basis of any prospective consumer's idea of the pedal, so they don't mind releasing the info that will permit the local guy to do that lousy soldering job.  Most of us here, though, will have limited opportunity to try out the higher-end pedals or hear them.  Those manufacturers want that occasion to feel like you're driving a Ferrari, each and every time it happens.  Eventually, the information WILL leak out and disseminate, but the intent is to maintain control over the brand for as long as possible, until it is well established and nothing can dislodge it.

~arph

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2007, 04:21:20 AM »
Tucked down Bob Moog`s underpants where NOOOBODY`S gonna find them!!! :icon_lol:

 :icon_eek:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 04:25:33 AM by ~arph »

Paul Perry (Frostwave)

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 03:08:57 PM »
Very nice eight stage LM13700 phaser, including high quality PCB for sale: http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/PHASESHIFTER2007/PHASESHIFTER2007.php
I can recommend Ray.

trevize

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 10:03:09 PM »
could the mfos 8 stage phaser be used with +9/-9 power supply? maybe with a 1044 charge pump?

StephenGiles

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2007, 01:04:18 AM »
could the mfos 8 stage phaser be used with +9/-9 power supply? maybe with a 1044 charge pump?

Surely 2 batteries would be better?
Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine.

DWBH

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2007, 01:33:34 AM »
Very nice eight stage LM13700 phaser, including high quality PCB for sale: http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/PHASESHIFTER2007/PHASESHIFTER2007.php
I can recommend Ray.

It's things like this I'm looking for. Great stuff! Thks

Aharon

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2007, 01:45:09 AM »
Aharon

Mark Hammer

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2007, 02:18:19 AM »
could the mfos 8 stage phaser be used with +9/-9 power supply? maybe with a 1044 charge pump?
Surely 2 batteries would be better?
Ray notes on his site that current needs are 20ma a side at +/-12v.  Not great for battery life, and pushing the capabilities of a charge pump.

You know what we need?  We need a little retrofit board for conversion of 9-12VAC to +/-9vdc or +/-12vdc.  Something you can stick inside a pedal and conveniently use an AC wallwart to get the requisite bipolar supply.  Choose your regulator value (9, 12, 15) from the 78L series (they all fit in the same space) and away you go.

moosapotamus

Re: Moog schematics
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2007, 03:59:19 AM »
moosapotamus.net
"I tend to like anything that I think sounds good."