Which order do your "alternative", weirdest pedals go in?

[Processaurus]

Everyone knows you go compressor>filter>distortion>EQ>Modulation>Delay>Reverb> for the normal sounds,  but I'm curious how people order their far out, unusual pedals to get the most out of them, like Ring mods, wacko fuzzes, pitch pirates, nyquist aliasers, harmonizers, etc.  As if there is anything close to guidelines to follow, but would you start using the same basic guidelines:

things that track pitch you want to track right (harmonist, whammy, synthesis, octave down)> things that respond to dynamics/envelope>things that limit dynamics or add harmonics (fuzzes, aliaser, octavia, wave shapers)>  Filtering (vocoder, formant filter, talkbox, VCF, sample and hold filter)>Time delay based effects (vibrato, pitch shifter, reverse delay)> amplitude modulation based effects (chopper trem, panning, ring modulation, boost)>sampling/mixing (loop pedal, external source (like an ipod, sampler, boombox, 4 track, keyboard))

Just curious, I was hooking up my stuff the other day and was like, wave multiplier into aliaser, or aliaser into wave multiplier?  Or with distortion pedals, do you go weirdest to most normal, or vice versa?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

That old fraud Aleister Crowley got it right, when he said "Do what thou will, shall be the whole of the law."
Though I think anything tending to increase harmonics (distortion, aliasing, fuzz) should go ahead of anything that depends on harmonically rich source material (filters, wahs).

[GREEN FUZ]

That old fraud Aleister Crowley got it right, when he said "Do what thou will, shall be the whole of the law."

Yes, but he always placed a Wah before the Fuzz in his signal chain.

[remmelt]

Aleister Crowley, born Edward Alexander Crowley, (12 October 1875 – 1 December 1947; the surname is pronounced /'krəʊ.li/ i.e. with the first syllable sounding like "crow" in English) was a British occultist, writer and mystic.[1]
He is perhaps best known today for his occult writings, especially The Book of the Law, the central sacred text of Thelema. Crowley was also an influential member in several occult organizations, including the Golden Dawn, the Argenteum Astrum, and Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.).
Other interests and accomplishments were wide-ranging—he was a chess player, mountain climber, poet, painter, astrologer, hedonist, drug experimenter, social critic and fervent stompbox tinkerer.

from wikipedia

So I'm guessing he was in a pretty rad doom metal band then?

[Jurgen]

Crowley is cool.

Most people seem to like placing modulation effects after distortion, but i really like the sound of a phaser before distortion.

[GREEN FUZ]

Aleister proudly displaying his first self built Theremin.

[Ben N]

Just logically, stuff that tracks pitch should be ahead of anything that adds harmonic content or any moving filters. Likewise, envelope controlled effects, to work well, should go ahead of anything that constricts or otherwise messes with your dynamics, such as compressors & fuzzes.

You can get a lot more leeway, however, especially in DIY-land, if you have separate inputs for control signal/sidechain. So, for example, for an autowah to well and trully wah based on your picking, you want to feed the envelope follower your unsqueezed, unclipped pristine signal with all its dynamics intact. Having done so, though, it would be fine to apply the actual filtering way down your signal chain after your Deluxe Big Muff has eliminated all vestiges of attack and decay from your notes. Ths is similar to what some noise gates, like the Boss, do. Search for old threads on sidechains. Mark Hammer has made a number of very interesting contributions.

Ben

[mattpocket]

Here's an idea... try it both ways, and see which works best! *shock horror*

Haha

[theblackman]

oh, i have mr crowley by ozzy osbourne stuck in my head now thanks...

mr crowley, doo dooo ddoodo... he fooled all the people with magic !!!

[soulsonic]

I have a recording of Crowley singing "Viva La France". Funny stuff.

[Processaurus]

You can get a lot more leeway, however, especially in DIY-land, if you have separate inputs for control signal/sidechain. So, for example, for an autowah to well and trully wah based on your picking, you want to feed the envelope follower your unsqueezed, unclipped pristine signal with all its dynamics intact. Having done so, though, it would be fine to apply the actual filtering way down your signal chain after your Deluxe Big Muff has eliminated all vestiges of attack and decay from your notes. Ths is similar to what some noise gates, like the Boss, do. Search for old threads on sidechains. Mark Hammer has made a number of very interesting contributions.

Ben

Side chains are the best, unfortunately most effected musicians aren't geeky enough to have a clear idea of how to take advantage, so they don't make it into commercial pedals.

The Boss harmonist pedal is the only pitch shifter I know of that has a "detector" input that reads the pitch (i'm sure because they imagine you wanting to rock the hyper distorted double lead, a la maiden, but it wouldn't track right with all the heavy metal comin in), and then the actual transformation is done to the normal input.  Really good idea though.  The side chain is cool with the boss noise suppressor, I've gotten some strange sounds with it and other pedals (my fave is using it to kill echo regeneration in a modded DD-3 when you stop playing).  So are envelope filters with sidechains, for having it filter distortion and stuff way down the line.  A reasonable mod for analog pedals, for sure.

[runmikeyrun]

I put my uglyface first so i can roll off the volume knob to make it oscillate.  After that i put an EQ to boost signal into the signal sucking DOD chorus and auto-wah.  I can inject my Atari Punk Sim anywhere but towards the end it works better.  PT-80 comes last to delay everything that is made by all the effects.  My PT-80 has the loop mod so i need to get some FX to put in that.   I need to build a limiter, that would go in right before the return jack on the loop box.

All of this in in a bypass looper w/ TSA on it.  Those things can be really cool with the right effect!  I put 4148 diodes across my output lug on the bypass box to tame the ridiculous levels put out by the uglyface and TSA.

[mattpocket]

I thought the atari punk was a noise maker, not a stomp box?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I thought the atari punk was a noise maker, not a stomp box?

Note he said he "injected" the Atari Punk. Presumably via a micromixer of some kind.

[mattpocket]

Oh yeah sorry!

Only just woken up! haha

[DiamondDog]

Most people seem to like placing modulation effects after distortion, but i really like the sound of a phaser before distortion.

I like the phaser before the wah as well.

Phaser->wah->overdrive/distortion->preamp->Boss EH2->Boss HR2*->Boss DC3->Volume+buffer->2xdelays->reverbs in amps.

* HR 2 also picks  a reference signal from a Y between the guitar and phaser. Otherwise it sounds, like, really bad man.

My preference is to have all the overdrive etc done before leaving the preamp. From there it's working off an "established" signal. I want the delays after the volume so I can do swells nicely. I came up with this setup after years of plugging and unplugging and noting down settings and impressions. That's my sound. YMMV.

DD