gah! flipping tonepad's pcbs

[sasuke_kun12]

the pcb is reversed on the pdf file and i transferred it using the toner transfer method (No PNP) but now its all reversed! does that mean all my components go in reverse as well?

[bancika]

if you don't have ICs you'll probably be able to do it reversed...but IC's make it complicated

[sasuke_kun12]

aw geez i think i'll need to find a way to reverse them maybe printing them, scanning then flipping might do justice?

[snoof]

look for the "mirror" option in your graphics program.

[theundeadelvis]

I've built a lot of pedals from Tonepad PCBs and never had to flip them? 

Also, great double use of the word "Flipping" ! 

[theundeadelvis]

Remember the copper traces will be on the back of the PCB and the components on the other side. So, it seems like the traces are backwards, but really you look at it from the other side as if you could see though the plastic. Hmmm, that explanation is clear as mud.

[johngreene]

the pcb is reversed on the pdf file and i transferred it using the toner transfer method (No PNP) but now its all reversed! does that mean all my components go in reverse as well?

Just mount the components on the other side of the board. Nothing says the copper -has- to be on the bottom.

--john

[petemoore]

  Flip the IC over and if the pins would match, [sticking 'up' instead of down]...
  Bend all the pins around so they're sticking up, socket.
  Careful to make the bends points not 'crease' and break off very easily, try to distribute the bend points where it wouldn't be a hard,sharp bend, still have enough pin sticking straight out to penetrate the sockets pin wipers.
  I started with duck-billed or plain needle nose pliers, to get the pins sticking out flat, then bent each one with the NN type pliers [while holding the IC body with pliers so I could manipulate better where to curve in the pin].

[aloupos]

OK, I'll "try" to clear this up.  First off, I believe that your board is correct.  The traces are reversed on the copper side of board.  your components are mounted on the plastic side of the board.  Looking at the board from the top (the copper side down), you should see the traces as they appear in the PCB layout.  The layouts from GGG, tonepad, and most that you find here are already oriented correctly.  You just print, iron and etch! 

Good luck
Anthony

[Mark Hammer]

A half dozen years ago, or maybe more, I ran into a rather embarassing problem when I foolishly etched a board "backwards" (I think it was for a Dr. Quack) and it was taking forever to figure out why it wasn't working.  We had some discussion on an earlier incarnation of this forum, and what came out of it was that people making board layouts started to include some text in the layout pattern.  The orientation of the text would help to identify whether it was intended for PnP or photo-etch/Sharpie style transfer.  This has since become the standard for the most part, and even when such text is not included, there is usually a statement in any text accompanying the layout document indicating it is for PnP.  And if that weren't enough, with the widespread availability of cheap laser-printers, decent photo-paper and PnP sheets, there aren't a lot of hobbyists using a technique other than toner-transfer (some, just not a lot), so most layouts are aimed at toner transfer and oriented accordingly.  I know if I scan an old project article (generally anything before about 1998 or so) that happens to include a PCB layout, I either have to "flip" the PCB layout and re-insert it into the scanned page, or else include a descriptive note indicating to users that the image will need to be flipped if one intends to use toner transfer.

There are a few strategies one can adopt if you inadvertently find yourself with a "backwards" board and the thought of making another proper one is a nuisance.  Certainly passive components can be installed without problem, but you will need to observe transistor pinouts VERY carefully.  In some cases, this may involve orienting the transistor differently than is shown on any drawings accompanying the board.  For chips, you have two choices.  First, if you install the chip on the copper side, the pins will be in the right place and you can simply solder the pins to the copper pads on the copper side, though it may be difficult for some soldering tips.  The other thng you can do is to gently bend the IC pins backwards and solder the IC to the board in a "normal" way.  I've done this and it works fine.  When I say "gentle", however, I mean it.

[sasuke_kun12]

thanks for all your help guys! hrm IC's are gonna be a killer if i just print and iron so i think the sensible way is flipping the PCB. I only have enough copper boards that i can swipe from school before they'll noticed! (lol and they haven't yet :-))

[johngreene]

There are a few strategies one can adopt if you inadvertently find yourself with a "backwards" board and the thought of making another proper one is a nuisance.  Certainly passive components can be installed without problem, but you will need to observe transistor pinouts VERY carefully.  In some cases, this may involve orienting the transistor differently than is shown on any drawings accompanying the board.  For chips, you have two choices.  First, if you install the chip on the copper side, the pins will be in the right place and you can simply solder the pins to the copper pads on the copper side, though it may be difficult for some soldering tips.  The other thng you can do is to gently bend the IC pins backwards and solder the IC to the board in a "normal" way.  I've done this and it works fine.  When I say "gentle", however, I mean it.

When I make my own PC Boards I always do 2 layers. You are stuck bending IC leads around if you mix it up in this case but my point is, I -always- route the traces on the top of the board. I leave the bottom for a big ground plane, only dropping a trace down when absolutely necessary. So I don't see any problem what-so-ever with just flipping the board over and installing the components on the copper side. It's the norm for me.

--john

[GREEN FUZ]

As far as I can tell from looking at the Tonepad site, the pcb layouts are already reversed. Therefore when ironed they will end up oriented correctly. Conventionally and according to Tonepad practice the components go on the reverse side of the copper traces. Before you go confusing matters check that this is the case with your layout.

I believe Aloupus in reply #8 has already made the point.

[theundeadelvis]

As far as I can tell from looking at the Tonepad site, the pcb layouts are already reversed. Therefore when ironed they will end up oriented correctly. Conventionally and according to Tonepad practice the components go on the reverse side of the copper traces. Before you go confusing matters check that this is the case with your layout.

I believe Aloupus in reply #8 has already made the point.

That's what I was trying to say in my post. The Tonepad transfers do not need reversed. When you etch them they will be exactly how you need them.

[railhead]

Like everyone's said, they don't need to be flipped.

And FYI, all you have to do is acetone the toner if you haven't etched it, and the copper is ready for re-transfer (it sounded like you thought otherwise base don your "swiping" boards).