Switching solution

[Nuts]

Hi,
It's becoming harder for me to switch between sounds, as my pedals quantity grow, so I want it to be more organize, with your help of course ... :-)

Basicly, I want to be able to switch between 3 main sounds- Clean, Overdive and Distortion.
When the Clean sound is on, I want the compressor and the booster to activate.
When the Overdrive sound in on, I want only a SD-1.
And for the Distortion sound I want the Compressor, DS-1 and Equlaizer.



Is it possible ? how ?

Thank you very much !
Nuts.

[jayp5150]

It's very early here (I'm half asleep), but I'm thinking you'd have to build three loops, then run the desired effects through each one as described above.

[Nuts]

Ha ha... good morning there !

it's a problem, because I need the compressor in both clean and distortion sounds.
And I think I need to make some kind of "always on" loop for the phaser, flanger, chorus and tremolo, becaues I'm running the booster (for clean sound...) only after those pedals

[Mark Hammer]

Maybe you should send a note to Dean Hazelwanter.  He has developed a nice relay-based switching system that might accommodate your needs.

Or take a look at some of the material on "Wicked switches" at The Tone God's site.

Or take a look at some of the material on switching at RG's www.geofex.com site.

The general solution revolves around use of logic, whether CMOS, TTL, or PIC-based, that "interprets" a single switch closure as implying that some combination of switches is thrown, either opened or closed.  Think of it as an intelligent loop selector.

On the other hand, as much as we may bitch about them, you have just illustrated the motivation for companies to develop and sell digital multi-FX.

[tranceracer]

This is interesting...
Like Mark said you'll need to build a relay switching box that has inputs and outputs for your effects.

Is your EQ and DS1 are always paired up.  Do you run the EQ with any other effects?

Do you mix and match effects i.e. run your comp with the SD1 or modulation effects?

I run something similar to this.  I have my guitar run into a Comp then into a switch box that has two tru-bypass switches.  Each bypass loop has 3 pedals.  All I do stomp the switch and the pedals are "on" stomp the switch and the pedals are "off".  This pedal also reverses the order of the "A" and "B" effects loops.

In your case, depending on how many different pedal scenarios you want will determine the type of custom switch routing that need to be designed into a ckt.

Here's a pic of my little switch box I posted on another thread
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=59874.msg473256#msg473256

-tR

[Nuts]

I never mess with relay switching before...
The EQ and DS-1 do alwys paired, and I'm not runnig the EQ with other pedals, it can be treated as one pedal...

I don't need the compressor with the SD-1, but I do want to add modulations pedals without conection to the "loops", and I don't need the loops to control the modulations also...

I thoght about compromising on the booster control
with one switch selecting between two loops, that always one of them is on
one loop is for the SD-1, and the second loop is a compressor, and switch that turnig the DS-1 and EQ, on and off



What do yo think ?

[tranceracer]

That's a pretty creative switch design...

Here's what I was thinking:

Rearrange the pedals in this order because it seems a little more logical to have the SD1 at the beginning of the chain since it's only being used by itself and the COMP is teamed with the EQ/DS1.

AMP<-Delay<-Booster<-[ME]<-[EQ<-DS1]<-Comp<-SD1<----Guitar
                                    ME = Modulation Effects

Build a switch box w/ 6 separate Input and outputs to DPDT relays for the Delay, Booster, Mod effects, EQ/DS1, Comp and SD1.

The switch's Normally Closed position will have the effect enabled.   
The switch's Normally Open position is shorted as a bypass loop.

Now each of your 3 SPST stomp switches will turn the unused effect relay(s) to bypass.

-Distortion switch: will bypass Booster, ME and SD1.
-OD switch: will bypass Booster, ME. Eq/DS1 and Comp. 
-Clean switch: will bypass ME, Eq/DS1 and DS1.

This way you don't have to sacrifice or reconfigure the order of effects in your rig because the order of pedals can make a difference in the final perfect tone.

You can go a step further and have a separate SPST switch for each relay and still control the effects separately.

-tR

[Processaurus]

It's completely reasonable to build an extra compressor if that helps your switching system, though it looks like what you have in your diagram will work fine, once you get used to how the two switches relate.

Lately I've been thinking an exclusive multi-loop selector would be great.  There is a Geofex.com article called multi volume or something that has logic switching that looks to be the right idea, each momentary footswitch sets its channel on, and resets all the others.

[Nuts]

tranceracer, if I understood, in your way, when I want to switch sound, I need to turn off my current sound and then press the switch of the sound that I want ? right ?

Maybe I'll do end up building another comressor...

[Nuts]

How about this ?



With Switch 1 I'm switching between OVERDRIVE or CLEAN/DISTORTION.
With Switch 2 I'm switching between CLEAN or DESTORTION, and with the CLEAN I'm activating the Booster with the relay.

Is it OK ? Do I miss someting about the relay ?

[Stu Diddly]

Check this link out.  I know some guys touring that use this switcher.  It would be awesome if someone could clone this.  It's so user friendly.

http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/The_GigRig_Products_UK.html

This would solve most of your issues, if you could build it.

[tranceracer]

tranceracer, if I understood, in your way, when I want to switch sound, I need to turn off my current sound and then press the switch of the sound that I want ? right ?

Maybe I'll do end up building another comressor...

Yes, that's basically it.  If you activate multiple button combinations, you'll bypass more effects.

Not as elegant as the GigRig (;

It looks like the GigRig is the inverse of what I recommended.  They just use jumper switches to activate the loop relays that are in the normally bypass mode.

All you need to do to build a GigRig is to create a power bus for each switch bank and connect a relay to each mini switch.  The SPST stomp switch will activate each mini switch bank that has been set to activate the particular effect loop.  the more switch banks that are active the more effects are active. 

A lot more work for what I think was needed here tho...

A GigRig clone would be relatively easy to fab.

Check this link out.  I know some guys touring that use this switcher.  It would be awesome if someone could clone this.  It's so user friendly.

http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/The_GigRig_Products_UK.html

This would solve most of your issues, if you could build it.

Here's a quick and simple sketch of what a multi switch box may look like. (add bells and whistles to taste)


-tR

[tranceracer]

Correction to my previous post.

Those are DPDT relays NOT SPDT.  Doh!

-tR

[Stu Diddly]

How are would it be to draw a schmatic for a 10 loop gig rig? Do you need a DPDT relay for each loop channel?

[tranceracer]

basic schematic of a potential 10 loop switcher. 



Maybe this can give some here ideas to make a real killer board.

-tR

[tranceracer]

Updated the above schematic.. found some errors.

Just curious "IF" someone were to make a GigRig clone what features would some of you like to see ? 
-AB, maybe even C input selector,
-two stereo effects selectors
-Dancing Queen (ABBA) switch that move the 1st effect loop to the front/back of the chain.

-tR

[Stu Diddly]

I would like to see an output for the tuner and two outputs for amp.  It would be nice to have buffers on the outputs for the amps to help long cable runs. A separate tuner output would be nice also. Just some suggestions.

[Nuts]

So I only need 10 dip switches, 10 DPDT relays and 10 SPST switches ?!
It's looks too simple to be true ... 

[tranceracer]

Yea, That's what I originally thought too!  Maybe someone chime in if they see a flaw in the schematic.

Again, you can make it as simple or complex by adding boosters, pop-filters, LEDs, buffer for long runs, etc.

-tR

[DocHeavy]

I believe you are going to need more than switches and relays. There are 2 issues. I hope I can explain this.

When you close any SPST switch, you are connecting the bottom of all the little switches in it's associated DIP to ground. For any of those little switches that are closed, you will be connecting the tops of those switches to ground (and therefore the associated relays). The problem is (looking at the schematic) you will also be grounding the traces that are running left and right for those specific switches which will in turn ground the tops of the same-numbered switches in the other DIPs. For example, if you have the #1 switch closed on the lefthand DIP and you close the SPST switch under it, you will ground the top of the #1 switch on ALL of the DIP switches - because they are all wired together.

Let's name each DIP A to J from left to right and each little switch on the DIPs 1 to 10 - the lefthand switch(1) on the lefthand DIP(A) will be A1 - the second switch(2) on the lefthand DIP(A) will A2 - the 4th switch(4) on the 5th DIP(E) will be E4, etc.

If your first loop needs effects# 1,2 and 5 (relays 1,2 and 5) then A1,A2 and A5 will be closed.
Second loop - effects# 5 and 6 - switches B5 and B6 will be closed.
Third loop effects 3,4 and 6 - C3, C4 and C6 will be closed.

When you close SPST 1 (the far left switch) you will connect the top of switches A1, A2 and A5 to ground. This will also connect the tops of B1, C1, D1, etc. and B2, C2, D2, etc. and B5, C5, D5 etc. to ground. According to our example above, B5 is closed which will connect the bottom of all switches on the second DIP to ground. Since B6 is closed you will also turn on the #6 relay and connect the top of A6, C6, D6, etc. to ground. Per our example, C6 is closed and since C3 and C4 are closed, we have just turned on relays 3 and 4. We have clicked 1 switch and turned 6 of the effects on - and we haven't even accounted for the other 7 DIPs. If you are certain that no effect will ever be a part of more that one loop, this shouldn't be a problem. If not, you should be able to address that situation with a bunch of diodes.  If I'm not explaining this correctly, perhaps someone else can chime in.             

The other problem is, you can only turn each loop on and off. To switch loops, you will have to click one switch to turn that loop off and click another switch to turn that loop on. Otherwise you will just combine the loops.

Hope that makes sense.