How "green" is that aluminum enclosure?

[earthtonesaudio]

Does anyone know of a pedal enclosure manufacturer that uses a lot of recycled aluminum to make their boxes?  I'm sure they all have at least some recycled content, but does anyone know which has the most?  I'm looking for the standard die-cast type of boxes, such as those used by Zvex, MXR, etc.

Thanks!

[mojo_hand]

I thought that was a good question, but all I can dig up is that "normal" aluminum goods tend to be 25%-90% recycled.  Can't find anything on what the usual project box makers use, however.  Good luck in your search, I wouldn't mind using such boxes either, if any exemplary ones can be found.

[unidive]

It takes less oil (money) to recycle aluminum than to make new stuff. to make new stuff they have to pull this reddish ore of the ocean floor and seperate the aluminum with electrodes a VERY energy intense process vs. smelting old stuff. Anyway, this means that pretty much everyone outside of the aerospace industry usues recycled metal. It's one of the few instances where the market provides incentive to recycle, it's just cheaper.. and that's pretty much the case with all metals

Something like glass actually takes more oil (and more c02 and all the mercury in the air from the coal burned and a bunch of other stuff) to recycle than to fabricate new. So glass for the most part (so long as it's melted at some point) is actually very ungreen.

[signalpaths]

very interesting unidive It really makes ya think.  I know it makes me want to research things a little more. 

ERic

[brett]

Hi
Here in little Australia, we mine and refine 17 million tonnes of alumina and produce 2 million tonnes of aluminium per year.

Rceycling aluminium saves about 95% of the energy input of raw production, but not much aluminium gets recycled. 

Here in Oz, we mostly recycle cans - about 10 thousand tonnes of aluminium cans per year, equal to less than 1% of our aluminium production.
cheers

[Papa_lazerous]

Something like glass actually takes more oil (and more c02 and all the mercury in the air from the coal burned and a bunch of other stuff) to recycle than to fabricate new. So glass for the most part (so long as it's melted at some point) is actually very ungreen.

where on earth did you hear that drivel??? you are misinformed

Recycled glass is a key ingredient in making glass.... By adding glass to the raw mix it actually reduces the energy that they put into making glass, it is known as "cullet"  This is something I know as fact....But I come armed with quotes...

The manufacture of glass uses energy in the extraction and transportation of the raw materials, and during processing as materials have to be heated together to a very high temperature. Large amounts of fuel are used and the combustion of these fossil fuels produces carbon dioxide - a greenhouse gas. In 2002 the glass industry consumed a total of 8611,000,000 kWh of energy including electricity and carbon dioxide emissions totalled 1.8 million tonnes from the fossil fuels burnt in the factories. An efficient furnace will require 4 GJ of energy for each tonne of glass melted.

Glass can be recycled indefinitely as part of a simple but hugely beneficial process, as its structure does not deteriorate when reprocessed. In the case of bottles and jars, up to 80% of the total mixture can be made from reclaimed scrap glass, called "cullet". Cullet from a factory has a known composition and is recognised as domestic cullet. From bottle banks it is known as foreign and its actual properties will not be known.

If recycled glass is used to make new bottles and jars, the energy needed in the furnace is greatly reduced. After accounting for the transport and processing needed, 315kg of CO2 is saved per tonne of glass melted.

link http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Glass.htm

Recycling two bottles saves enough energy to boil water for five cups of tea

[unidive]

From another aparently misinformed person. I'll have to link him to this when I hear from him next.

[R.G.]

It seems that eco-speak will, just like tech-speak, be used in a strong admixture with pure bluff to sell stuff to people who are uninformed. Very, very few people ever look beyond some factoid they hear at a bar or in a forum on line. 

[sengo]

I was going to attempt to revive my old hobby of metal casting and try to make some aluminum enclosures from materials I recycled myself, i.e aluminum cans. Unfortunately, I believe the enclosures are probably cast in steel molds, and I don't have the means to make a steel mold. I could try silicone rubber maybe, that was fine for lead, which has a much lower melting point. I'm pretty sure sand molds would be worthless for something as small as an enclosure.

Any other metal casters on the forum?

My goal was to produce a stompbox out of as many recycled parts as I could, yet still have it look presentable. Maybe I'll set up a small forge when winter is over and see what I can do... so many schemes, so little time.

Nick   

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Brett, most aluminium used in Australia is recycled. Every dumpster I visit, someone has grabbed all the aluminium, including cans and old window frames.
True, copper has increased in price rapidly lately so the scrap guys are chasing that harder, but aluminium isn't being neglected.

As for recycled glass, you do have some 'old' glass added to the mix, but only a certain amount. Old glass isn't a very useful thing, so far. For most applications, the chemical mix has to be closely defined, and uniform. This doesn't go well with recycling, plus if any pyrex gets in there, that screws everything up.

maybe this topic shoud go to the lounge?

[brett]

Hi
After a little more reading, I find that in some forms and industries, recycling percentage is high.

This link indicates that in the building industry, it might be 80-85%.  However, only half of that (40-42%) comes from post-consumer recycling.  I guess it is a soft metal and easily recast or re-moulded.

http://www.aluminum.org/Content/NavigationMenu/The_Industry/Building_Construction_Market/LEEDProgramFactSheet.pdf
cheers

[R.G.]

I was going to attempt to revive my old hobby of metal casting and try to make some aluminum enclosures from materials I recycled myself, i.e aluminum cans. Unfortunately, I believe the enclosures are probably cast in steel molds, and I don't have the means to make a steel mold. I could try silicone rubber maybe, that was fine for lead, which has a much lower melting point. I'm pretty sure sand molds would be worthless for something as small as an enclosure.

Any other metal casters on the forum?

My goal was to produce a stompbox out of as many recycled parts as I could, yet still have it look presentable. Maybe I'll set up a small forge when winter is over and see what I can do... so many schemes, so little time.

Cool! Another raving madman like me!

Yes, the enclosures are cast in steel molds, and steel molds are beyond me at least.

However, have you thought of using lost foam casting? This is a technique where you make up the item you want in polystyrene foam, and add polystyrene foam sprues, vents, etc. Then you dip/brush coat the foam in gypsum wallboard compound until you get a suitable layer, and dry it. The resulting object is then packed in sand for mechanical holding in pouring. When you pour the metal, the metal instantly vaporizes the plastic foam and fills in the places where the foam used to be very faithfully. It's kind of a lost wax process but without the wax burnout step.

Google "lost foam casting".

[sengo]

R.G.,

I have not heard of that process. Sounds cool, I'll will be looking into that today, hooray for ice storms!

Nick

[unidive]

where on earth did you hear that drivel??? you are misinformed

Recycled glass is a key ingredient in making glass.... By adding glass to the raw mix it actually reduces the energy that they put into making glass, it is known as "cullet"  This is something I know as fact....But I come armed with quotes...

The manufacture of glass uses energy in the extraction and transportation of the raw materials, and during processing as materials have to be heated together to a very high temperature. Large amounts of fuel are used and the combustion of these fossil fuels produces carbon dioxide - a greenhouse gas. In 2002 the glass industry consumed a total of 8611,000,000 kWh of energy including electricity and carbon dioxide emissions totalled 1.8 million tonnes from the fossil fuels burnt in the factories. An efficient furnace will require 4 GJ of energy for each tonne of glass melted.

Glass can be recycled indefinitely as part of a simple but hugely beneficial process, as its structure does not deteriorate when reprocessed. In the case of bottles and jars, up to 80% of the total mixture can be made from reclaimed scrap glass, called "cullet". Cullet from a factory has a known composition and is recognised as domestic cullet. From bottle banks it is known as foreign and its actual properties will not be known.

If recycled glass is used to make new bottles and jars, the energy needed in the furnace is greatly reduced. After accounting for the transport and processing needed, 315kg of CO2 is saved per tonne of glass melted.

link http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Glass.htm

Recycling two bottles saves enough energy to boil water for five cups of tea

It wasn't glass, it was plastics recycling that's supposed to do more harm than good according to my source. I'm not going to say outright recycling plastics is bad BUT what needs to be looked at is how much oil is used to transport and reform all of the eventually lower qaulity plastics vs. how much it takes to make good, virgin plastics. In a lot of cases it may be wasteful to recycle.

I apologize for the hundreds of lives irrevocably damaged by my error re: the glass.

[Krinor]

I was going to attempt to revive my old hobby of metal casting and try to make some aluminum enclosures from materials I recycled myself, i.e aluminum cans. Unfortunately, I believe the enclosures are probably cast in steel molds, and I don't have the means to make a steel mold. I could try silicone rubber maybe, that was fine for lead, which has a much lower melting point. I'm pretty sure sand molds would be worthless for something as small as an enclosure.

Any other metal casters on the forum?

My goal was to produce a stompbox out of as many recycled parts as I could, yet still have it look presentable. Maybe I'll set up a small forge when winter is over and see what I can do... so many schemes, so little time.

Cool! Another raving madman like me!

Yes, the enclosures are cast in steel molds, and steel molds are beyond me at least.

However, have you thought of using lost foam casting? This is a technique where you make up the item you want in polystyrene foam, and add polystyrene foam sprues, vents, etc. Then you dip/brush coat the foam in gypsum wallboard compound until you get a suitable layer, and dry it. The resulting object is then packed in sand for mechanical holding in pouring. When you pour the metal, the metal instantly vaporizes the plastic foam and fills in the places where the foam used to be very faithfully. It's kind of a lost wax process but without the wax burnout step.

Google "lost foam casting".

That sounds interesting.
I've worked with the lost wax method myself, making bronze sculptures. It sure is hot stuff... We used helmets (of course) and special aprons made of "space suit" fabric when working with those large molds. It is a cumbersome method. Not as technical as steel molds. Sand molds can produce thin objects. It depends on the quality of the sand and the shape of the object. As long as the positive slips easily it should work. I've seen very thin ornaments and plate signs made this way.
For reference, Mike from Pedalenclosures posted some pictures of the steel mold approach a while ago in this thread:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=63682.20
(it's towards the bottom of page 2)

[earthtonesaudio]

Regarding the energy efficiency of recycling various materials, the general knowledge I have is that glass is the best, followed by most metals, then paper, then plastic in last place.  Recycling most plastics requires addition of some new plastic.  There are probably exceptions to all these statements, but this general picture helps me make many day-to-day decisions.  I've been able to cut my trash down to about 1/2 a grocery bag's worth per week, while my recycling is about 4 times that.

I'd love to see more about DIY-able enclosure making, especially if it helps cut down on waste of materials and/or energy. 

Just a note, I've been making the "25 cent steel stud enclosures" for a while.  I've been working to address some shortcomings of this technique, and hopefully I'll get some pictures soon. 

[tskullt]

Hi everyone,
   I did a little checking on my source for the ingots, and the ingots used to make my enclosures are made of 100% recycled aluminum!!!
Here's a look at the ingot...
http://www.pedalenclosures.com/media/ingots.jpg

So, I hope that helps!
m.