This is the Golden Age

[Meanderthal]

 Kinda funny, 20 years ago I thought that by now using stringed musical instruments would be like washing your clothes in the brook, and that pedals would be replaced by rackmounts entirely for those who were still backwards enough to cling to their obsolete archaic instruments, like bitter PA folks clinging to guns and religion. 

I was wrong. It's the rackmounts and the (then) ultra high-tech digital synths that seem outdated nowdays. 

[Solidhex]

Yo

  Must say I really appreciate the work of R.G. and many many others here for educating me on the technical aspects of building pedals and getting closer to understanding how to make pedals create the sounds I'm looking for.

Thanks, Brad

[Mark Hammer]

I think some folks here are mistaking the way in which voluminous output can result in a lot of redundancy with the way that voluminous output can come up with some interesting quirky stuff.

[R.G.]

Yeah, Mark.

My wife and her sisters tell me that amongst the females of the species, it's an article of faith that to find a prince you have to kiss a lot of frogs.

[ayayay!]

Here's some more to consider that would support R.G.'s statement:

Whenever any next really BIG thing happens, it always a) takes longer to happen than people expect and b) is more broad and far reaching than people expect. 

I think that has happened in our circle.  Thinking about the knowledge people had in the past of electronics (especially tube-operated,) this DIY stompboxes phenomenon could/should have happened sooner.  But because it didn't, and it's happening now instead, then yes this is the Golden Age.  (I know, we could cite lack of materials and resources, but that didn't stop guys from hot-rodding their Chevy's back in the day.     )

[DougH]

more companies making pedals

This may be true but it's really hard to wrap my arms around. That's mainly because there are so many entities involved in this coming & going every week that stretch my definition of what I'd call a "company" or "business". But I'm not even sure what a "golden age" is (other than a term you see in a history book) so there you go.

For myself, I'm starting to lose interest in this stuff. It hit me this past weekend for some reason. I have 3 or 4 things on the list to complete and I think that's gonna be it. The amps are still fun though. I have a junk box full of oddball tubes and it's fun to play "Hmmm... what could I do with this crazy-ass tube?".

[Mark Hammer]

I think the gist is that, when it's 2020 and you think back about the state of the industry, and all the various companies have come and gone, you'll smile wistfully and say "Y'know, there was a lotta cool stuff that emerged in that period between 2005 and 2010.  It was an inflection point."

And yes, there is one helluva lot of redundancy out there, and I am absolutely bored with fuzz-related questions (and especially TS-related questions).  But, I look at something like the L6 Tone Core Development kit, and I think "Here is a company, that has introduced some interesting and innovative ideas on their own, and are now saying 'Here, YOU think of something too!' "  Could that have happened in 1998, 1988, or 1978?  I strongly doubt it.  The sheer opportunity for introducing the counter-intuitive into an extremely hospitable consumer environment is mindblowing.  In 1978 I had an E-H Hot Foot pedal.  I thought it was very clever, but it never found its market and disappeared; partly because there were a few physical limitations to the device, and partly because not many people were ready to think in the way the pedal anticipated.  Now, 30 years later, people are blasé about the TIP Third Hand and other sorts of real time control, and the kinds of pedals that are showing up on the floor, as opposed to be found only in studio racks, is staggering.  Tap tempo is not unique to a specific pedal; it is a performance featre that people figure out how to introduce to a pedal.  Envelope control is not a bold new idea; it is something you try to see if there is still enough space on the panel to include as a performance feature.

I guess maybe this is one of those things that only the old farts can see.  I started out when the only pedal I was even aware of as existing, apart from the ones that said reverb/tremolo, was my school-mate's one-jack-and-a-long-tail Heathkit fuzz that he built himself.  We didn't even see anything in the music stores we went to.  So, from that perspective, I feel a bit like my 90 year-old aunt whose life has straddled Bi-Planes up to Blue-tooth phones.

[JDoyle]

99% of what is out there commercially is the same soup, reheated.

[frank_p]

Yes, R.G. did not refer to a period where there was a lot of new discoveries.  He talked about abundance, golden age, and Woodstock.

Golden age refers to a period of peace and abundance, ...an ideal state,  a RESULT of previous progress in science (that will be ended by a decadence period in the utopist point of view).
Perhaps the 60's and 70's were the "ages of enlightenment" for effects.
80's was perhaps the full blown industrialisation period.
We already might have passed a golden age because we might now be on the back of the wave of postmodernism of stomboxes: decentralisation of ideas, tendency where ornamentation is more important than novelties.

Quote wikipedia:
refer to a cultural, intellectual, or artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity, diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality.

Woodsock is now archetype of a turning point in modernity (real one) a movement AGAINST extreme rigidity and for plurality.  The DIY movement began in the 90's refusing the concentration of the means in the hand of the big industries.  Postmodernism was the last well identified movement of the visual arts and reflected itself in some social analysis.

The problem is that the Woodstock folks knew what they wanted and they mainly agreed on that.  In postmodernism, there is no direction to the will in the social entity causing the dissolution of the social entity itself hence fragmentation and ultimate diversity of similar ideas.

Now, do the stompboxers really form an entity capable of having a constructive view of the future ?  Do they really want a revolution or have the means to do it ?  So, the relation to Woodstock may be of a relative similarity.

What I see is really postmodernism, with some folks having some anomie phenomena feelings, and others running in every directions, recycling ideas and hoping to have some recognition in a world where the one who gained it might have instead, criticism on their tail:  because all that matters is opinions when no laws is really effective and the structure can't be maintained.  The only law may be here, the copyright and some patents.
Just teasing. 

[iaresee]

If this is the apex, I'm disappointed. I thought we were just on the cusp of things getting really interesting. The knowledge is more pervasive. The skill set to use the knowledge is more pervasive. We're at a point where re-hashing the tube screamer is boring people. Guitarists, an oddly inflexible bunch if you like to apply broad stereotypes (and sometimes I do), are starting to warm up to new ways of making sounds. Digital isn't shunned anymore. Really good digital is no longer cost prohibitive to tinker with. And we've only scratched the surface of what digital-analog hybrids can do. And now you've got the tools and the skill sets available to do digital and d-a hybrid design in your basement.

I think we're in great times, but I also think the best is yet to come.

[DougH]

I hate to be the argumentative hardass here, Mark, but...

I view the Tonecore stuff, as well as POG/HOG, & Whammy, for example, as something that this industry should have been doing all along. These products should be the norm instead of an occasional bright spot of creativity in a sea of monotonous sludge. Given the resources, opportunity and the public's appetite for this sort of thing, there should be a lot more of this kind of creativity exhibited than there has been up to this point. In reality it's an ultra-conservative, stodgy industry that serves very narrow interests for the most part. I find the lack of creativity and forward thinking shown over the years to be kind of shameful, really.

So, from that perspective, I feel a bit like my 90 year-old aunt whose life has straddled Bi-Planes up to Blue-tooth phones.

Somewhere we have a cassette tape of my wife's grandmother talking about the first time she saw an automobile. In my life I've experienced plenty of that "straddling" myself- medical advances, consumer electronics, communication, the space program (of which both myself and my father have been part of) and so on. Pedals? Hmmm... Somehow they're not even on my list when I think about "advances" in my lifetime. The fuzzes built today really aren't any different than what I built in 1974 when I started. The availability of parts and the support infrastructure for hobbyists have improved tremendously. But the pedal industry itself has not really moved that far, from what I can see. Certainly not nearly as far as they should have in 34 years IMO.

[Mick Bailey]

The trouble with technology is we've already picked the 'low hanging fruit'. I think this applies everywhere. When was the last great technological discovery/invention? Maybe the Laser? ICs are just a development of what had come before with the invention of the transistor. We've seen relatively minor developments more recently - LEDs, Hall effect devices, etc. But nothing really major.

I do think this is the age of DIY, regardless of where the inspiration comes from. Many of the newer developments of older designs are more consistent, reliable and usable under modern gig conditions.

I've owned many of the classic pedals when they were new - I've not particularly missed any of them, except for their monetary value nowadays. There is a greater sense of satisfaction in building your own pedal that no commercial pedal can replace. I've had sounds out of DIY stuff that I've never got from mass-produced commercial units. I build in solidity and durability and the knowledge that I can repair the thing if it breaks.

You might not be very good with your hands, or understand electronics, but the supportive society that you can inhabit in a forum like this can make a difference and assist you in creating something for yourself. You can play your instrument through a pedal you've made yourself and however bad your wiring, soldering, drilling or parts placement no-one can take that satisfaction away from you.

However slight your experience, you can contribute - you can tell everyone how it sounds and the problems you've encountered. I've long passed the stage where I thought a newcomer couldn't show me a thing or to and I'm humbled by the work and effort that people put into their builds, or how creative individuals can be in the face of lack of components in their part of the world.

This has to be a golden age, if only for this.

[Mark Hammer]

If this is the apex, I'm disappointed. I thought we were just on the cusp of things getting really interesting. The knowledge is more pervasive. The skill set to use the knowledge is more pervasive. We're at a point where re-hashing the tube screamer is boring people. Guitarists, an oddly inflexible bunch if you like to apply broad stereotypes (and sometimes I do), are starting to warm up to new ways of making sounds. Digital isn't shunned anymore. Really good digital is no longer cost prohibitive to tinker with. And we've only scratched the surface of what digital-analog hybrids can do. And now you've got the tools and the skill sets available to do digital and d-a hybrid design in your basement.

I think we're in great times, but I also think the best is yet to come.

I don't think the inference is that this is about as good as we can expect, and that things are downhill from here on in.  Rather, the inference is that we've collectively hit stride or cruising speed.  That there is a pervasive openness to innovative products and ideas, that the "good stuff" will just keep on coming and coming and coming because we're open to it as consumers/designers/manufacturers, because the means are there to achieve it, and because cost and technology make realization feasible.  "Golden age" doesn't mean its over.  There is good plateau and bad plateau.  Good plateau needn't imply asymptote.

Doug,

You'll have more of a smile on your face if you think of yourself as way ahead of the pack, and the industry as doing a respectable job of trying to keep up with you.

For years, I've been smacking my forehead and muttering "What are these doofuses thinking?" whenever I looked at all the one-knob wonders and 2-knob wonders from EHX and MXR.  But, God bless 'em, EHX was nimble enough to step out from under that cloud and make some conceptual leaps that they haven't really been up to making since the days of the first Microsynth and the Polyphase.  Ironically, I think their particular kind of market presence, and their example-setting function has opened up a lot of doors for people.  I'm not saying that Pigtronix could not have done it on their own, but when EHX can turn out something like the HOG or Holiest Grail or Flanger Hoax, after a quarter century of one knob and one switch, other manufacturers can feel confident in taking the leap they have....and maybe taking one beyond that.

[aron]

I keep waiting for a DSP pedal that I design on the computer (using easily modifiable blocks), then am able to download into the pedal.

[iaresee]

I keep waiting for a DSP pedal that I design on the computer (using easily modifiable blocks), then am able to download into the pedal.

I'm working on it. This is where I think we're "on the cusp" and the slope of that line for innovation is going to go very high, very quickly, at some very near point in the future as the barrier to software -> dedicated hardware really gets low and accessible. So I agree with Mark: Golden doesn't have to mean a plateau, but I think it's a local maxima that'll soon be dwarfed once the bridge between DSP hardware and software gets easy enough.

Seriously, we're almost there. There are a couple of routes to this now and it's getting easier every day. There are ModelSim -> FPGA bridges that let you do block-based DSP design in ModelSim and move it to hardware. There's the Max/MSP approach. Combine it with Pluggo (which lets you turn Max/MSP patches into VST plugins) and something like this VST plugin running pedal and you've got Max/MSP block design -> hardware. This is the area where I think development has only just really begun. Forgot modeling and emulation. I don't understand why companies spend so much time trying to model when they could be innovating (I think TC Electronic was smart with the Nova stuff: no modeling overdrives, only analog overdrives in the multi-FX units) in the digital space. Doing new things. Instead of trying to do things that work well in analog, imperfectly in digital. I only really started to stray seriously in this DIY space as I started to contemplate how I could take some of the things I love doing in Max/MSP and put them at my feet. It's proving hard, but not impossible.

[DougH]

You'll have more of a smile on your face if you think of yourself as way ahead of the pack, and the industry as doing a respectable job of trying to keep up with you.

Thanks Mark, but if that's the case we're all in serious trouble.

Aron, that's a good idea. One of the issues with playing with DSP is the "custom hardware intensiveness" of it. In my experience of embedded and PLC stuff, this is pretty typical. It's not a big issue for corporations and govt entities that have $ to spend on development labs and infrastructure. But for a hobbyist working out of his garage it can be a stumbling block.

[Paul Marossy]

It's the rackmounts and the (then) ultra high-tech digital synths that seem outdated nowdays.

Yeah, that's because they can cram the same amount of electronics into a much smaller floor pedal thingie, thanks to SMD technology. A lot more transportable and a lot less bulky. 

[A.S.P.]

I keep waiting for a DSP pedal that I design on the computer (using easily modifiable blocks), then am able to download into the pedal.

like THIS?

[Morocotopo]

Aron and iaresee, I´ve wanted that since...well, since a long time. That´s real innovation! Not the canned pedalboards that Boss et al offer... who wants a digital emulation of a big muff? Not me...get a real one!
Of course economics, market forces, tradition, etc etc enter the picture...and you go from a Tube Screamer with 20_30 parts in it that has a few GREAT sounds to a pedalboard with thousands of SMD parts (and potential sounds) that sounds moderately awful all the time.
Then, on the other hand, some companies in the same situation/with the same limitations put out great boxes (Lexicon LXP5 comes to mind. Few sounds, awful user interface, but the sound...wow...)
Can you imagine a pedal that runs Reaktor? or Max? or... whatever you can write in software?
Yessss, I want one!!!!!!!!
That V-pedal looks coooool!
Anyone tried it?

Morocotopo

[brett]

Hi
There have been a lot of comments such as this one :

There seems to be very little in terms of true originality of design

As a person who lived through a number of "golden ages", I feel that I have a fair idea what one looks like.  I think RG is correct.  Even though a little part of me wants him to be wrong so that there are even better times in the future.

Some of the latest threads are amazing.  What about the "pictures" and "running 12AU7s at 9 and 12V" ?  A couple of years ago, who would have thought that we could have decent valve sounds at 12V? So far, there have only been two or three pedal/preamp designs out of that concept, but more will come.  Wow, you gotta love that.  And how many people are "plugging and playing" with schematics?  They take gain stage "A" from a circuit, and add tone section "B", and equalisation section "C", etc, and come up with some exceedingly cool stuff. 

And don't just look at the circuits - the questions being asked, and the proposals being put in the forum are evidence of what really makes a golden age - the people.

So for me, it feels golden right now.