pedalboard buffers

[liddokun]

In the quest to finally finish building my pedalboard, I totally didn't think of buffers.  I'm running about 13 pedals on my board, and almost all of them are true bypass. 

My chain goes: Guitar>korg dt10 tuner>vox wah>phaser>dynacomp>rangemaster>ts808>fuzz>eq>chorus>flange>delay>tremolo

I'm planning on building a loop box so that the box sits on my board, and the cable from my guitar and cable going to my amp comes from that one box. 
I believe the Korg DT10 tuner has a buffer on it, and the eq pedal is the only other one without true bypass. 
My main question is, should I add buffers? And if so, where?  I'm thinking maybe output buffer, I can tack one on in the loop box.  Should I have any input buffers too?  Lastly, should I throw one in my wah for good measure?

[cpnyc23]

Well, the output buffer depends on the length of cable going from the last pedal to the input of the amp (generally).  If the chorus, flange, delay & trem aren't on all the time, there will be a noticeable difference in tone when you engage/disengage them.

Is your TS808 one that you built?  Otherwise, it is buffered.

My suggestion is build a simple buffer and try it out!

-chris

[liddokun]

TS is without a buffer since it's DIY.  The only pedal with a buffer on it would have to be the tuner. 

[kurtlives]

Most DIY TS' have buffers...

With out buffers in a TS your getting into mystic "boot tweak" electronics.

[liddokun]

I think I'll tack an output buffer to my looper, just in case.  I can always bypass if need be.

[mth5044]

I put this infront of my basically all truebypass board and the difference is night and day.

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=74&Itemid=26

I know some people say it may work, or you may not need it, but I put it in there just to see, and it really is...wow. Putting it at the end I never thought of, but if you put it at the end, whats the point? I had always thought that the point of the buffer was to beef it up to go through all the true bypass pedals, not take the signal after its been through all of them and make it better. I guess even both would be ok. You just have to watch out with fuzz's. My tonebender HATES the buffer. It will do a strange volume swell when you hit more then one note a time with the buffer on.

Anyway, from my experience, that buffer up front really adds more lost treble onto the signal. I'm glad I did it 

[liddokun]

Well, my pedal tuner actually has a buffer in it, which I heard isn't all too bad.  I have that at the beginning of my chain. 

[mth5044]

Well @#$% it then, man. If it sounds good to you, thats what matters.

[liddokun]

Well, I'm still considering putting one on at the end, just to make up for losses maybe?  I read a lot of reviews on harmony central and a lot of people seem to love the buffer in the DT10 tuner.  So I'm just wondering if I should put one at the end too.

[cpnyc23]

harmony central has been known to lead people astray now and again...

-chris

[liddokun]

Yes, so I've realized.  I've decided I'm just going to put one on, before and after my chain, and see how it sounds.  It really can't hurt.

[mdaudet]

You'll hear a great improvement of your tone if you add a buffer before the signal chain (as a first "pedal").

After the signal chain it depends if the length of your cables is enough to worth it, or if the last pedal doesn't have a buffer (but not so important yet).

The idea is to retain the original tone without the high loss that happen across cables and pedals. So a buffer at first pedal is a great addition.

cheers

[Hanglow]

some people like an output buffer on a wah to get a better wah sound when using with fuzz and some other distortions after it.

[shredgd]

some people like an output buffer on a wah to get a better wah sound when using with fuzz and some other distortions after it.

Not really to sound better, but to avoid the squeal a wah can produce in front of a fuzz...

To answer the original question, I think your signal is already buffered enough. You have a buffer in your tuner, which is at the beginnning of the pedal chain, where you most need it. Then you have another buffer in the eq, which is placed towards the end of the chain. no need to add another at the end.
At most, you might consider building an A/B box for your tuner, to have the possibility of using your fuzz with no buffers in front (to get the best sound out of it). In that case, you can build a switchable buffer into the A/B box to engage when you're not using the fuzz.

Giulio

[earthtonesaudio]

Yeah, I would put any Fuzz Face or vintage wah circuits first, before any buffers, then a buffer or buffered pedal like your tuner.  That should take care of everything after it unless you have like 200 feet of cable.

Also, if you leave any of those later pedals "always on" you can pretty much think of it as a buffer also.

[cpnyc23]

I would definitely look at the option of building a buffer with 2 outputs (check out Jack Orman's site).  Put it first in your chain - have the signal go where it splits in 2.  Signal 1 continues on to the rest of your pedals.  Signal 2 goes to the tuner.  That way you don't have to worry about the quality of the buffer in the tuner.

-chris

[liddokun]

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  I'm going to definitely look into them.

[Ben N]

Well, I'm still considering putting one on at the end, just to make up for losses maybe?  I read a lot of reviews on harmony central and a lot of people seem to love the buffer in the DT10 tuner.  So I'm just wondering if I should put one at the end too.

A buffer wont "make up for losses" that occur before the signal gets to it. That would be a recovery stage, which is more like a carefully calibrated booster than a buffer. The purpose of the buffer at the end is to drive long cables or to cure impedance mismatches between the last "on" or non-TBP pedal and the amp. Your typical tube amp input has a high enough input impedance that that should be ok in most cases. If you can determine the output-Z of your pedals, it may be that there is no need for an output buffer.