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DIYstompboxes.com  |  DIY Stompboxes  |  Building your own stompbox  |  A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter  (Read 1290 times)
OnLyTNT
Posts: 30


A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« on: October 02, 2008, 03:32:34 PM »

Part 1:

Hello,

As an amateur poor room guitarist, I'm always searching for some ideas about how to get a nice guitar sound without having such big, expensive amps, cabinets, and other sound equipments. So, I'm ended up here like some (or many) of you. I see some electronic and software solutions out there to eliminate high frequencies and get much responsive sound like famous cabinets.

Software speaker simulators, as far as I know, is the best option for recording. They really sound detailed. But, some guys don't like the sound of digital processing or it's not practical and use electronic simulators which are not so detailed like software one and they mostly and simply behave as a low pass filter. Of course, Palmer simulators and other such expensive products are out of our subject.

As you know, the speaker cabinets can be configured to get some filter behaviors. They can boost or eliminate certain frequencies. Also, the speakers which produced special for guitar sound are naturally mechanical filters and have more characteristic response unlike hi-fi speakers.

The goal which I'm trying to reach is a cabinet simulator that is simple, inexpensive, organic (i mean not digital) and really sounds like a speaker. Using an electronic simulator through a small amplifier and a speaker then miking it up to get speaker dynamics is the simplest solution. But, I'm on something else  Grin.

Obviously , the main problem of the small speakers is high frequency part. So, most of the solutions are aiming that for now.

The first thing I experienced is a 5 cm. speaker attached directly to a 15cm. PVC pipe. This construction boosts low frequencies as you can see in a regular sub woofer design. But there is no box behind of the speaker. To eliminate high frequencies, I used some sponge in front of the speaker icon_lol. A Samson Q8 microphone was used to capture its sound and applied  some post filters. The mike was in the pipe, that is the most important part of this experiment. And the drive sound belongs to POD 2.0. Much sponge might have helped to eliminate the fizzy sound or some notch filters could do the trick. Actually, the original record by Inflames has some fizz in it too  icon_rolleyes

Here the sound sample:
http://www.box.net/shared/h2uvpg0bfg

Let me tell you something just here, If I use the same settings on POD with POD's own cabinet simulator I don't get that distorted sound. It's much clear sound. You need speaker distortion for the best way to get a good guitar sound, it's not important if the speaker is small or not.

After that I tried two 16 cm. car speakers attached to a wooden cabinet. The cabinet has a hole on the left side and I miked up the cabinet through that hole. Boss GE-7 and a modified Digitech Death Metal pedal were used. Microphone was a cheap computer microphone  icon_razz. This sounds huge in my opinion.

Sound Sample:
http://www.box.net/shared/oj91pa1or6

Ok, second option is not good enough for recording at night, its a bit loud. But the first one is completely silent and I recorded the sample at 2 am.

By the way, I want to share some other tricks which I noted. Using wool in a cabinet reduces the "box" sound and make it dark. This is a good trick for small cabinets. Also Whatever you use in front of the speakers changes the characteristics of the sound. For example, they use clothes to protect the speakers and for a good appearance. In fact, it effects the clarity of the sound. And I want to test isobaric construction sometime. This is another trick to eliminate high frequencies.

In the second part I will introduce you a final design. It will be a recording box with mechanical filters, just ready to plug and play. It's not done physically, I just want to share what is in my mind and discuss to improve it.

Thanks for reading, sorry for my crappy English and guitar play icon_redface, please share your thoughts.
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krister
Posts: 117



Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »

The first clip sounds pretty good. I really liked the sound of the second clip.
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wavley
Posts: 1740



WWW
Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 10:00:50 AM »

You could always use a series inductor to remove high frequencies if want to band pass then you could add a series capacitor, then you could do it in a calculable/predictable/repeatable way.  There are lots of websites about crossover design, the nice thing about doing it with a low pass or band pass single driver is that you're taking the other speakers behavior out of the equation, you can just tweak your frequency range to your heart's desire.
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teemuk
Posts: 283


Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 05:13:30 AM »

These are all cunning ideas but as "cabinet simulators" I think they will fail to a few shortcomings...

- They are actually using speaker that makes sound, probably loud or loudish sound. One reason cabinet simulators are used is generating a miked cabinet sound but without actually using a miked cabinet that emits sound. ...you know, when you want to, say, record entirely silently.

- Since you are using real speakers and capturing things with real microphones there are issues of signal bleed from other sources. This all may work well during quiet solo recording sesions but how about during sessions where you are recording the entire band - a VERY LOUD band - with one take, and you actually need to record a track that is entirely isolated from other instruments. This is again application where cabinet simulators are used because they eliminate the need to capture sound waves with microphones and therefore eliminate the issue of other sound sources, vibrations, etc. bleeding to the captured signal.

Anyway, I'm not about belittling your design efforts but perhaps they could be labelled a bit differently like say...

"Isolation cabinets".  Wink
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:17:31 AM by teemuk » Logged
J0K3RX
Posts: 1289


Jim - Earth 2014


WWW
Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 01:56:10 PM »

Use LeCab 2 and you can download thousands of free IR's (Impulse Responce)... These are created from real cabs/mics/rooms etc... Like having the real deal! Used all the time in professional recording. Also check out Redwirez
http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/2010/12/lecab2-vst-for-windows.html

All you need to know can be found here..
http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/
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If it sounds good, then it is good...
artifus
Posts: 1742


dare to be naïve


Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 02:03:14 PM »

stirring up a nest, but i can't help myself...

agree with most points above, use isolation booths and di'd simulations often myself, but tip my hat to the op for trying something new as they have no doubt recorded some unique sounds. keep up the good work.

*edit* yeah, ok, there's nothing new under the sun, you cynical fluffs, but at least they are trying something 'new' to them, off of their own back and from their own imagination rather than following paint by numbers on-line instructions by rote. respect.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 02:08:55 PM by artifus » Logged

J0K3RX
Posts: 1289


Jim - Earth 2014


WWW
Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 02:48:34 PM »

stirring up a nest, but i can't help myself...

agree with most points above, use isolation booths and di'd simulations often myself, but tip my hat to the op for trying something new as they have no doubt recorded some unique sounds. keep up the good work.

*edit* yeah, ok, there's nothing new under the sun, you cynical fluffs, but at least they are trying something 'new' to them, off of their own back and from their own imagination rather than following paint by numbers on-line instructions by rote. respect.

I'm not knocking anything and I do think what he has done is quite good... I think you can do whatever you want.. Nothing wrong with trying whatever your brain can come up with is a good thing!!! If people didn't try new things we all would probably still be living in caves and beating on hollow logs with a buffalo bone... The reason I mentioned IR's is because he said ("As an amateur poor room guitarist, I'm always searching for some ideas about how to get a nice guitar sound without having such big, expensive amps, cabinets, and other sound equipment.")  A lot of guitar players don't know about IR's or how to use them so, I try to turn people onto them when I can! They are created from the real cabs/speakers/mics and from almost every mic position you can imagine. Some are created by leaders in the industry and would never have been obtainable up until now... # 1 they are free(most of them) # 2 they are created from the real equipment # 3 They sound incredible! I don't see as paint-by-numbers at all? Just trying to be helpful you know.. There are no rules to getting a sound with guitar or music in general..! Anything goes.. Like a famous guitarist (Eddie VanHalen) once said "If it sounds good , then it is good!"
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If it sounds good, then it is good...
artifus
Posts: 1742


dare to be naïve


Re: A new approach for cabinet simulators: Mechanical (or physical, whatever) filter
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 04:16:10 PM »

don't mind me - howling at the moon again

t'wasn't directed at anyone in particular and if it were then i would be as worthy a recipient as anyone else
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