mechanical puzzle: spring-reverb-in-a-pedal

[Strategy]

Some of you will shoot down the spring-reverb-in-a-pedal concept as an unsolvable design problem, but let's just say for hypothetical's sake that you need to problem solve through this one :-)

I built my Stage Center Reverb into a cool enclosure (repurposed from a former midi controller!), with the switch and electronics sharing the same box as the reverb tank. I used rubber grommets on the tank mounting, to reduce shocks going into the tank.

Most of the Stage Center (and other spring reverb) setups I've seen feature the switch and electronics in a little box, with a bigger, separate box containing the spring reverb tank itself, housed separately so that when you step the switch it doesn't rattle the tank.

I don't mind a little rattle, but what I'm noticing is that the switch I got is REALLY snappy. It's almost like it clicks so hard that it sends a sort of click shaped shockwave through the whole enclosure! It's less about my foot touching the box, and more related to this snap crackle foot switch. Very tight. It's a 3PDT from small bear, I've the same onein all my projects that use a 3PDT. 

Design puzzle:
- Change the switch?
or..?
- Refine the shock mounts on the tank?

Regarding switches, can anyone point me to some high end stuff that doesn't do such a clunk? Almost like the Moogerfooger switches for instance?

Regarding shockmounting, can anyone suggest a substance more robustly dampening than your average hardware store rubber grommets?

Thanks for any and all suggestions! I can't be the first crazy person to attempt a pedal w/ tank contained within, there are after all at least 3 commercially made boutique pedals in this configuration. Anyone see the inside of them? Demeter Reverbulator, Vanamps Reverbamate etc.?

Thanks,
- Strategy

[John Lyons]

I would mount the tank inside the box with spring as well.
One at each corner. The finer the spring the less the transmission of
shock/vibration. You can also put a rubber/silicon tube over the
sprint to dampen it. Might not be needed.
I would also mount the switch in a separate enclosure that is mostly
isolated from the tank. Just a smaller box beside the main tank box
should do it. If you used a main bottom piece and isolated the side
wall (adjoining) with a 1/4" of space then you would only have one
surface sharing the vibration (bottom plate of the whole thing.
You could isolate the sidecar box with rubber or silicon spacers as well.

It's very doable.

[squidsquad]

I'd take the easy way out....mount the switch off-board w/a short cord.

[Tonemonger]

I once helped a guy make something similar , and we just glued foam rubber to the reverb pan and glued the foam to the enclosure upsidedown.
But , then we made a little 'battering ram' out of some dowel and the springs we had previously tried because he WANTED to kick it !!

[Paul Marossy]

I'd take the easy way out....mount the switch off-board w/a short cord.

I would do the same because it I think it would be the most effective way to get rid of the problem.

[kristoffereide]

How does a reverbtank work? Does it send signal through the parallel springs? I've never given it much thought

[Boogdish]

Danelectro beat you to the punch.  Maybe try to find some gut shots of the Spring King to get ideas.

I think you'd definitely want to try using an electronic bypass where you can use a momentary switch so you wouldn't have to use as much force on the switch.

[Paul Marossy]

How does a reverbtank work? Does it send signal through the parallel springs? I've never given it much thought

Quoted from this page here: http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Reverb

"Spring Reverbs

Spring reverbs provide a relatively simple and inexpensive method for creating reverb effects. Spring reverbs have been used in Hammand organs and will still find them in many guitar amplifiers. In amps, the spring reverbs are usually enclosed in a metal box, called the reverb pan, which is attached to the bottom of the amp. The pan takes an audio signal and produces a reverberated version which is then mixed into the dry signal. (As a side note, you can remove the reverb pan in amps to get a crude effects loop, although you might have some impedance matching problems)

The operation of a spring reverb is pretty simple - the audio signal is coupled to one end of the spring by a transducer (a transducer is simply a device that converts energy in one form to another - in this case, electrical and mechanical energy. Some other familiar transducers are the pickups on a guitar, microphones, and speakers). This creates waves that travel through the spring. At the other end of the spring, there is another transducer that converts some of the motion in the string into an electrical signal, which is then added to the dry sound. When a wave arrives at an end of the spring, part of the wave's energy is reflected and stays in the spring. It is these reflections that create the reverb characteristic sound.

Often you will find several springs being used together in a reverb unit. Each spring can be of a different length or under a different tension to avoid the uniform behavior in a single spring, where all the reflections occur at fixed times. In a sense, it increases the 'randomness' of the echoes. However in most reverb units, the spring lengths and tensions are fixed in the design process, and not left to the user to control."

[petemoore]

  Spring driver is a ''transducer'', [coil and magnet] it's a little like a teensy speaker with a special hook for the springs...the coil is driven by an amp, but instead of a cone there's a spring-hook.
  The pickup is also a coil/magnet affair, the wiggled spring resonations [after traveling down the springs] wiggle the pickup coil, putting out a little signal that needs re-amplifying and is then mixed back with the unaffected signal.
 
 

[Strategy]

Here's a picture of the pedal:


OK, some replies-

@JohnLyons: Thanks for the silicon tubing/springs recommendation! I'll try this. The goal is to postpone the sidecar option as long as possible, even if that seems like a silly goal 

@SquidSquad: see above, anything I can do to avoid utilizing an "off-box" or "sidecar" solution, I'm going to try.

@Boogdish: Oh yeah, i'd forgotten about the Spring King. Spring Reverb in a pedal is not a new concept, I know that, but the issue is: I've never gotten to see gut shots of any of them. The ones I know of are: Songworks Little Lanilei, VanAmps Reverbamate and Solemate, Danelectro Spring King, and Demeter Reverbulator. So I'm curious about any dampening tricks I can glean from these.

@Boogdish: I'll look for info about the electronic bypass. So far I've never used anything like this. A momentary switch would be great. As I said, the springs don't shake from the force of my foot on the pedal; they shake from the click of the switch itself.

Thanks for all the brainstorming/replies,
Strategy

[Nasse]

I thought I should lend my brains for this topic (I saw the brainstorm word and I got some education about "lots of brains in the barn" when I was young (dunno what he word is in english)

I suggest that the box should be triangular or use three instead four rubber things in the bottom, if you got the other problems solved.

[Taylor]

The Dano has a tiny spring for the springy sound, but the actual "reverb" is solid state, I think a PT2399. So you couldn't use it as an inspiration, and you wouldn't want to. It's not a real spring reverb.

What I would do is use one of the switching setups that uses a momentary switch to control an electronic switch. Momentary stomps are smoother and don't have the click. Designs include The Tone God's "wicked switch", RG's pancake switch, and the Fulltone switching... I think.

[rumblefuzz]

Maybe I'm being stupid, but isn't a relay switch the obvious solution for this? Or a FET switching like in the old 808 type Ibanez pedals.

[Paul Marossy]

Maybe I'm being stupid, but isn't a relay switch the obvious solution for this? Or a FET switching like in the old 808 type Ibanez pedals.

Maybe. But you still have to step on the box, which can still disturb the springs inside the reverb tank...

[Iron Code Monkey]

Separate the spring tank from the hardware, I.E. have the spring tank in a separate enclosure from the switch/knobs/electronics.

[Strategy]

Separate the spring tank from the hardware, I.E. have the spring tank in a separate enclosure from the switch/knobs/electronics.

Right, totally, everyone keeps saying this as I knew you all would 

But the "puzzle" is how to resolve the problem (even if only by degrees) without creating a sidecar or break-out box.

The enclosure is extremely stable itself, again the noise/shock comes largely from the clicking action of the switch, so I'm liking the electronic switch propositions along with JohnLyons' shock absorption ideas.

The trick will be modding the existing 3pdt to become an electronic switch, will take some doing, I'm a little bit timid when it comes to mods. That being said, I've been able to make this Stage Center out of almost completely salvaged and repurposed parts which has made it exceedingly cheap and therefore, a good test subject for frankenstein type modding exercises. Not much to lose on this except time really. The only costly part was a new stock accutronics tank.

- Strategy

[Taylor]

Honestly, go for a momentary stomp, like this. Much easier than modifying a 3PDT. Combine that with one of these:

http://www.geocities.com/thetonegod/switches/switches.html
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/footswitch_pancake/footswitch_pancake.htm (this also describes how to make the physical switch itself for cheap, so you don't need the mechanical one above)

I have some of these, and they are very smooth with no click.

[Strategy]

Honestly, go for a momentary stomp, like this. Much easier than modifying a 3PDT. Combine that with one of these:
http://www.geocities.com/thetonegod/switches/switches.html
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/footswitch_pancake/footswitch_pancake.htm (this also describes how to make the physical switch itself for cheap, so you don't need the mechanical one above)

I have some of these, and they are very smooth with no click.

Thanks Taylor, I like these Wicked Switch options, now just to look over the stuff I just downloaded from the Tone God to see which of the various switch recipes are best for this project !

Thanks
- Strategy