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DIYstompboxes.com  |  DIY Stompboxes  |  Building your own stompbox  |  Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal  (Read 21490 times)
alanlan
Posts: 531


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2009, 04:23:03 PM »

Thing is: no-one here seems to have the undisputed answer to your question.  It would be an expensive option to have someone make one (BSIAB that is) for you to find that it's not the ticket with your particular rig.  But, if you ask me, that sound does not come from a conventional distortion pedal feeding the amp.  To my ears, it's more like the sound I used to have with some tonal differences i.e. high gain boost and/or tone/graphic EQ into amp.  This is just my opinion, but I've never heard a distortion pedal that does it for me like the aformentioned combination.  The BSIAB clips I've heard don't clean up in the same way and also, they seem quite a bit noisier.  If you've got the dosh to experiment with the BSIAB, feel free but I reckon you'll be disappointed.

One other point, in RWTD for example, the verse guitar bits seem like he could be reducing the drive a bit and then wacking it back up for the chorus and solo's may even be an extra boost.  One thing I used to do was run 2 micro-amps in series with one set for decent crunch and the other for full on solo tone.  this worked really well although in this case i think you'd hear the switch unless it was done with a variable control.
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Shepherd
Posts: 183


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2009, 06:55:33 PM »

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80351.0;topicseen
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liquids
Posts: 1021


Matthew


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2009, 08:08:19 PM »

Thing is: no-one here seems to have the undisputed answer to your question.  It would be an expensive option to have someone make one (BSIAB that is) for you to find that it's not the ticket with your particular rig.  
True, but people seem willing to pay the price for a pedal, since it's very modular, easily bought and sold...less risky, less dough, and less heavy than a new amp head if your on a tone quest.

The BSIAB clips I've heard don't clean up in the same way and also, they seem quite a bit noisier.  If you've got the dosh to experiment with the BSIAB, feel free but I reckon you'll be disappointed.
They are.  Stock, it's got too much gain and potentially noisy. And it cleans up poorly.   Even Ed seems to advise not using J201s these days.   With Mpf102s/2n5459s at the front pair an more so in all the mu-amp positions, its far more dynamic, for starters, as a drop in replacement, and still has plenty of gain on tap even for classic VH rythms.

Halen, since you are talking purchasing rather than building, also check out the Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret sound clips.  It's getting some great reviews these days for a rock sound...it's two gain stages rather than three, less gain, but still mu-amps.

In the end, I think the ticket for you is going to be jfet mu-amps. Which variation on that you go with...there are abundances.  But even tonight I was comparing CMOS inverter type ODs (Red Llama, 4007s-based, etc) and also op amp clippers.  I forgot just how much more real mu-amp types sound, as a starting point.  BSIAB is just one of many pedal (these days) that use mu-amps for distortion, and speaking general, if you want a pedal, that's what I'd advise is a good way to narrow it down, especially assuming you've tried the endless garden variety of op amp diode clipping distortion pedals....

Not that there aren't plenty of good opamp clippers...Barber stuff comes to mind if you want affordable, quality, heavy variations on that theme.   
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Ripthorn
Posts: 1175

Brian T.


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2009, 09:31:32 PM »

I reckon all he needs is a burst box...Wait, I mean a box with a burst button on it... icon_lol

In all seriousness, there are so many variables that you can't have a set formula that will nail the exact tone.  It just can't be done.  There are variations between batches of transistors used in the pedals, variations in every component along the whole chain.  And all these small differences propagate through to the end tone.
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MoltenVoltage
Posts: 741


Cascade Range, Oregon


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2009, 10:07:18 PM »

I appreciate the quest for the EVH grail, but...isn't the idea to have your own original sound?

Unless of course you're an atomic punk
http://www.theatomicpunks.com/
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Fender3D
Posts: 796


Federico S.


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2009, 06:24:59 AM »

Alanlan,strings are very important,Ed used fender XL150 9-40 set,same strings i use,also tuned down 1/2 step.Liquids i have tried and owned many boutique amps from A-Z also some early marshall plexis,the amps that i use and have been using for sometime now,they have the base foundation the the sound we are talking about are the VHT Deliverance heads(single channel heads with no bells or whisles),im just looking for that extra "THING''(pedal)to push it there. 

Sorry halen, but if you "tried and owned" every musical stuff known to human kind and you still didn't find what you were looking for, why on earth might you achieve that unique tone with different stuff or pedal?

you'd better ask Eddie if he can borrow you some stem cells, maybe Smiley
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gmoon
Posts: 120

Doug G.


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2009, 07:29:59 AM »

Eds tone changed from album to album, his fingers didnt change,his equipment changed or should i say Eds not being honest,again im talking about his first album sound(van halen 1),im very knowledgeable about his sound,some people here are not.I know about what Ed used,i do believe that Ed is not shooting straight when it comes to his early sound.

More like EVH doesn't remember the setup from the first album, or more likely he doesn't care.

EVH doesn't sound like VH1 anymore, right? So he's evolved and doesn't want to sound the same...
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liquids
Posts: 1021


Matthew


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2009, 08:03:40 AM »

More like EVH doesn't remember the setup from the first album, or more likely he doesn't care.

EVH doesn't sound like VH1 anymore, right? So he's evolved and doesn't want to sound the same...

It can be like that with anyone.  I still sound like me, just like I did ten years ago, but my guitar tone is significantly different.  I say it's even better now, but someone else may still come back and say "I like your old sound."  It's a valid opinion.

As mentioned in the link to the 'ephemeral nature of tone' thread linked here, let's also not forget about what things like the recording room, microphones used (!), recording format (tape, presumably), mixing (things that sound amazing in a recording mix can often sound unnatural when you isolate the track) mastering,  etc, do.  

But that hunt fuels the guitar market....just go to GC and see.   Smiley
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gmoon
Posts: 120

Doug G.


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2009, 08:57:00 AM »

It can be like that with anyone.  I still sound like me, just like I did ten years ago, but my guitar tone is significantly different.  I say it's even better now, but someone else may still come back and say "I like your old sound."  It's a valid opinion.

I agree completely, and was only taking exception to the belief that EVH was being deceptive about the gear on the first album...
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Paul Marossy
Posts: 12527


Just Another Guitarhead


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2009, 12:40:01 PM »

I appreciate the quest for the EVH grail, but...isn't the idea to have your own original sound?

I was going to ask "why not find your own sound?" earlier in this thread, but I don't know all the details about why he wants to get that sound. I don't want to jump to conclusions.

However, IMO, I think it's much better to find your own sound rather than trying to copy someone else's sound, unless you are in a band that is trying to nail tunes exactly as they sound on a recording (which can be extremely difficult). Even then, I prefer to make stuff my own with my own sound rather than trying to be a mockingbird imitating something it hears.
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"Tone is in the fingers."
Ibanezfoo
Posts: 92

Random foo


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2009, 02:50:45 PM »

More like EVH doesn't remember the setup from the first album, or more likely he doesn't care.

EVH doesn't sound like VH1 anymore, right? So he's evolved and doesn't want to sound the same...

I read a number of interviews from EVH and he seems downright bitter that people try to copy his equipment.  Maybe he just spreads as much BS as possible because they've already coped his playing style and equipment... there must be a secret weapon in there somewhere.  I might do the same thing if I were him...
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wavley
Posts: 1944


Staunton, VA


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2009, 03:31:00 PM »

I would too if I invented the Burst Box for VH1 and that damn Jack White let the cat out of the bag and used one in public. Grin
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Anchorman
Posts: 25


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2009, 04:36:41 AM »

Some time ago someone at the metroforum posted isolated guitar tracks from RWTD, one track with the greenbacks, one track with the JBL's (D-120's?). From those tracks you can (only IMO) come to the conclusion, that the JBL's are big part of that 'sizzle' in the high frequencies. Of course, in combination with a plexi and correct pup's etc. I don't believe he used pedals for overdrive/distortion.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 04:38:17 AM by Anchorman » Logged
frequencycentral
Posts: 4892


Kicking the sh!t of of your speakers since 2008


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2009, 06:00:45 AM »

Ah! What you really need to sound just like EVH is one of these, an Eddy's Tone Box. Hope that helps!
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DougH
Posts: 6072


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2009, 08:50:36 AM »

 icon_mrgreen
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Paul Marossy
Posts: 12527


Just Another Guitarhead


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2009, 09:04:12 AM »

Ah! What you really need to sound just like EVH is one of these, an Eddy's Tone Box. Hope that helps!

Cool, it's just like an instant mix... just add water. Voila! Now you're Eddie Van Halen. Cool, all I need to find now is a box that turns me into Allan Holdsworth.  icon_lol
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"Tone is in the fingers."
Fender3D
Posts: 796


Federico S.


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2009, 01:14:36 PM »

you simply need to swap the Eddie's Tone Box screws with "Alle(a)n" wrench screws Smiley
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aron
Administrator
Posts: 10241

Aron Nelson


Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2009, 01:51:52 PM »

Probably most of you have heard the bootlegs of Van Halen in a club. Although it's just audience recorded, his playing does sound like the recording.  I don't think he slaved during the early days. I also believe like others that there are lots of conflicting info re: variac, distortion pedal etc...

All I know is that from building our fun boxes, no single box will give you the Van Halen tone OR the sound/feel of a great cranked amp all by itself. Not to mention the player aspect.
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Paul Marossy
Posts: 12527


Just Another Guitarhead


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Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2009, 05:55:24 PM »

you simply need to swap the Eddie's Tone Box screws with "Alle(a)n" wrench screws Smiley

Gee, that's simple! Why didn't I think of that?  icon_mrgreen
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Ronsonic
Posts: 953



WWW
Re: Van halen 1 sounding overdrive-distortion pedal
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2009, 11:21:49 AM »

Eds tone changed from album to album, his fingers didnt change,his equipment changed or should i say Eds not being honest,again im talking about his first album sound(van halen 1),im very knowledgeable about his sound,some people here are not.I know about what Ed used,i do believe that Ed is not shooting straight when it comes to his early sound.

I am not personally familiar with Eddie's gear. I know and followed his early playing. As an amp tech I sorta need to know something, and there is the grapevine among tech's. From credible reports, the amps were gently modded. Reports vary, but are within the range of mild, moderate gain mods and may have varied from year to year and amp to amp. This is pretty consistent with what we hear. Yes, the variac was turned down, not up. Eddie simply @#$%ing lied about that and a wide range of other subjects. He is not to be believed when he talks about gear. Maybe that's changed with years and maturity**.

I say you can get that sound (or as close as you can get that sound) with the usually accepted rig, Variac, modded Marshall, boost in front, stereo delay off the amplified sound, not going into the amp. Don't forget, an SM57 in front of a speaker is the world's most perfect compressor.

** So little Tommy goes to his mother and says "Mommy I wanna be a lead guitar player when I grow up." Mom gently reminds him "Oh, Tommy, you know you can't do both."
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