Wireless effects control

[erupshaun]

Hey everyone

I'm building a wireless sytem for effects control, and looking at different wireless options.

I've looked at things like bluetooth, IR, and such, but I found what looks like some realitivly cheap and easy to use low power RF chips.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had experience with this stuff, and what sort of problems I might encounter, specifically, if these sorts of units tend to interfere with the guitar pickups? The guitar we are working with has a humbucker and 2 single-coils.

Any advice or input would be appreciated!

[modsquad]

Friends don't let friends use wireless...Seriously,  unless you need it I wouldn't recommend it.  I have had more trouble with wireless mics, guitar, etc. over the years due to rf, lights, etc.   If you want it for home or small studio it might work, but I have found it just unpredictable.   I will let others more knowledgeable chime in, but I have gone back to using quality cables as a result of my foray into the wireless world.

[ghostsauce]

I've yet to use a wireless system that doesn't suck all the fun out of my tone.  It's a great idea, but I've found that no amount of tweaking can rebuild your sound after a wireless split.  I don't want to ruin your hopes and dreams or anything, I'm just tossing in my (limited) experience.

[jacobyjd]

I'm building a wireless sytem for effects control, and looking at different wireless options.

This sounds interesting--don't discourage it! It doesn't necessarily mean a fully-wireless guitar rig, just effects control, people--that part of it gives me some interesting ideas.

[DougH]

I mentioned this recently in another thread but how about a Wii-like wireless control that would allow you to control fx parameters in 3d space?

[ghostsauce]

Oh, I see what you mean. I misread.

Yeah, it does sound pretty wicked. You could even stick your entire pedalboard behind your amp, and just have a little box with a bunch of kickers on it to control the whole rig.

[FiveseveN]

erupshaun, the choice of technique/interface basically depends on how many parameters you need to control, how accurate and how flexible you want the system to be.
You can go all-out with visual (or kinetic, or both) gesture recognition like these guys: http://airguitar.tml.hut.fi/tech.html but with stage lighting and variable backgrounds it can become a real pain to get it working consistently. So maybe kinetic sensors would be better (accelerometers), only they're not particularly accurate.

[jacobyjd]

erupshaun, the choice of technique/interface basically depends on how many parameters you need to control, how accurate and how flexible you want the system to be.
You can go all-out with visual (or kinetic, or both) gesture recognition like these guys: http://airguitar.tml.hut.fi/tech.html but with stage lighting and variable backgrounds it can become a real pain to get it working consistently. So maybe kinetic sensors would be better (accelerometers), only they're not particularly accurate.

I was thinking kinetic sensors as well--but they do only handle relative movement. You might be able to do something with IR as well.

...all of which brings us to the Wiimote, which is probably the best platform to start with for this kind of thing (it's bluetoothy AND has IR)

[erupshaun]

erupshaun, the choice of technique/interface basically depends on how many parameters you need to control, how accurate and how flexible you want the system to be.
You can go all-out with visual (or kinetic, or both) gesture recognition like these guys: http://airguitar.tml.hut.fi/tech.html but with stage lighting and variable backgrounds it can become a real pain to get it working consistently. So maybe kinetic sensors would be better (accelerometers), only they're not particularly accurate.

lol, i'm glad everyone caught on: this is NOT a wireless guitar signal, but wireless control of effects parameters.  
That visual gesture recognition is pretty interesting! But it looks like we probably don't have the time/money to bring that into our project.
Thus far, we are using 2 arduino microprocessors and rf transmitter/recievers. we will have membrane potentiometers on the guitar, controlling a perimeter (so far it will be something on a delay pedal). We have been considering using the bluetooth arduino boards, for tx/rx like in video game controllers (wii was mentioned several times). i don't think we will use IR control, because of the possible interferences in a performance setting.
Our only concern with RF transmission is possible interference with guitar pickups! the RF transmits at 350Mhz, and we aren't sure if that will result in some horrible buzzing.
anyone had a similar situation before?

We have considered using either digital potentiometers (voltage controlled pots) to control the parameters of the pedal, and we have also heard that transistors could be used in replacement for the pots (is this true?). The pots we are trying to replace are 850k. Since it's wireless there should be a movement free modulation of these resistances in the circuit.. does anyone have any experience doing anything like this? 

[petemoore]

  I forget where it ended last time I asked about it.
  Fine feature for rig/guitar: Amp volume control knob [remote].
  But the ''up up up'' = 3 ''notches'' up, button type like remote volume on IR television controllers would probably suffice, especially if I could vary the Db units that = a ''notch''.
  Same thing for distortion output controls, treble, phase speed...I'd have to limit the number of things controlled so the guitar doesn't look like a keyboard.

[Rodgre]

Check out the Hot Hand from Source Audio.

http://www.sourceaudio.net/

[modsquad]

Okay you guys are wayyyyyyyyyyyy smarter than me...my question would be the effects of any type of interference that wireless suffers from in live environments. 

[FiveseveN]

Well sure, lots of sources can interfere with radio and stage lights could interfere with IR but if it's digital and with sufficient error compensation it should be fine. You can also implement extra security, so evil-doers can't easily spoof your traffic and build their own controllers But that leads to higher latency or more processing power (more expensive).
It must be noted that wireless mics and guitars are being used all around the world on stages big and small, so undoubtably it CAN be done.

[Mark Hammer]

I suspect there are a GREAT many guitarists who would love to be able to pick up a handheld remote from a holder on the mic stand, point it at their amp, and tweak something.

Actually, a project consisting of a PIC-based receiver controlling a couple of digital pots (those Dallas things) in standard values, that you could point any bargain basement universal remote at, would be extremely popular.

[earthtonesaudio]

Heh... how about an iPhone app that lets you upload new models to your Line6 from across the stage, while playing?

Hm. This probably already exists.   

[FiveseveN]

@Mark: problem is, anyone could could point any bargain basement universal remote at it
That's why I raised the issue of security.

[erupshaun]

erupshaun, the choice of technique/interface basically depends on how many parameters you need to control, how accurate and how flexible you want the system to be.
You can go all-out with visual (or kinetic, or both) gesture recognition like these guys: http://airguitar.tml.hut.fi/tech.html but with stage lighting and variable backgrounds it can become a real pain to get it working consistently. So maybe kinetic sensors would be better (accelerometers), only they're not particularly accurate.

lol, i'm glad everyone caught on: this is NOT a wireless guitar signal, but wireless control of effects parameters.  
That visual gesture recognition is pretty interesting! But it looks like we probably don't have the time/money to bring that into our project.
Thus far, we are using 2 arduino microprocessors and rf transmitter/recievers. we will have membrane potentiometers on the guitar, controlling a perimeter (so far it will be something on a delay pedal). We have been considering using the bluetooth arduino boards, for tx/rx like in video game controllers (wii was mentioned several times). i don't think we will use IR control, because of the possible interferences in a performance setting.
Our only concern with RF transmission is possible interference with guitar pickups! the RF transmits at 350Mhz, and we aren't sure if that will result in some horrible buzzing.
anyone had a similar situation before?

We have considered using either digital potentiometers (voltage controlled pots) to control the parameters of the pedal, and we have also heard that transistors could be used in replacement for the pots (is this true?). The pots we are trying to replace are 850k. Since it's wireless there should be a movement free modulation of these resistances in the circuit.. does anyone have any experience doing anything like this? 

Bumping for insight...

[Mark Hammer]

@Mark: problem is, anyone could could point any bargain basement universal remote at it
That's why I raised the issue of security.

All remotely controlled appliances have a unique code.  Just pick something that nobody buys anymore and assign the code for that thing to your device to be controlled.  If somebody wants to come to one of your shows and spend the evening trying to figure out which off-brand VCR your rig corresponds to, more power to them.

[Brymus]

I think it was me who suggested this idea in your previous thread.
Using Mark's idea of the Wii remote is a very good one > strap it to the guitar and contol volume,wah,rate ,gain by axis orientation of your guitar...
This would be super cool using your guitar to control a multi-effect ,say axis > headstock to tail piece on X is volume so tilting the headstock to the floor lowers the volume or pitch shifts down like a trem bar...
Shaking it back and forth to you away from you induces wah..
Rotating it flat on X axis ups vibrato or flange...
Using the ZZ top guitar spinner on your guitar would make for Leslie sounds (had to say it LOL)
You get the idea,it would make for a cool stage presence as well.