3PDT switch cannot turn off (more info)

[krelly5]

Ok, I just posted a question about the 3dpt, but the topic lacked a lot of info.

1. Name of the project: Distortion pack by GGG (DOD overdrive 250 from '77)
2. Link to documentation: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=26&mosmsg=Item+successfully+saved.
3. -
4. No modifications are made to the original.
5. Problem: The 3pdt switch cannot be switched of (that is when powered:)). I'm wondering if the switch if broken or I wired something wrongly.
The overdrive pedal effect is awesome btw.

Krelly5

[anchovie]

Got a photo of your wired switch?

[krelly5]

I exactly copied this schematic:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_dist_g250_lo.pdf

[R.G.]

The 3PDT switch is especially confusing because the pins are a square array on most of them, so it is quite easy to confuse the orientation, getting it turned 90 degrees and accidentally wiring every pin but the center one incorrectly.

The solution is to use your digital multimeter (DMM) as an ohmmeter to detect which pins are connected to which others. This will let you get the orientation correct.

If you don't have at least a DMM, it is unlikely you will be able to do much in the way of getting effects running when you accidentally make mistakes. They're available for as little as $5 in the USA, probably less other places.

[krelly5]

What do you mean with measuring the orientation by using a DMM? In what way should the resistance of the switch vary in what direction?

I think the 3pdt switch is really confusing, because there is no orientation point. (at least, I did not find it)

[KazooMan]

You need to determine which pins are connected to each other.  If you have a meter that measures continuity (usually by making a beep) then you can see which pins are connected before and after pressing the switch.  If you just have an ohmmeter, you will see which sets of pins give you a zero ohms reading.  Here is a picture of a common 3PDT switch.  You can see that there are three sets of pins that are connected, one outer row with the middle row.  Pressing the switch connects the middle row to the other outside row. The problem is that not all switches are made with the lugs in the same orientation.  You can't just rely on assuming that the connections will be as I have indicated when the lugs are oriented horizontally.  You should check with a meter.

I hope the image works, I have had some problems getting pictures to display on this forum. 

[Paul Marossy]

On the blue Cliff and taiwanese 3PDT switches, it is oriented correctly when you can see thru the holes on the lugs. When it is in this position, either the top or bottom rows will be in contact with the middle row.

[PRR]

> I hope the image works, I have had some problems getting pictures to display on this forum.

It's not this forum. It's that i.pbase.com server. It does not like to serve files called from other sites. It's a magazine photo-album server, not a general posting server. It seems that if YOU have had the image open on your computer, you can see it on other sites (from cache); but others can't.

Try www.tinypic.com

[krelly5]

First of all, everybody, thank you a lot for replying on this topic, it helped me a lot!

I figured out the switch is broken, because despite of pushing the switch, one row is permanently isolated from the rest. So I concluded that when it stays isolated, it should be broken.
Did I conclude it correctly?

[bumblebee]

In the pic above for the way the switch is aligned the numbering is wrong,it should go:
147
258
369

123 is one pole, 456 is the second and 789 the third. 258 are individual commons for that pole.

This is correct:

[KazooMan]

To PRR:  Thanks for the information on the images.  Pbase should work for any site I choose to link it to.  That's why I pay them money every year.  I will contact them to see if they can resolve the problem.

To Bumblebee:  Sorry about the numbering.  When I took the pic and posted it previously I just numbered it arbitrarily.  I didn't know that there was an industry standard. 

[petemoore]

figured out the switch is broken, because despite of pushing the switch, one row is permanently isolated from the rest. So I concluded that when it stays isolated, it should be broken.
Did I conclude it correctly?
  Can't tell, but I doubt the switch, if sorta new and hasn't been internally melted, is probably functional, the 'rows' [if that is a common definition to us], aren't supposed to ever connect.
  Paul's picture is what it looks like if you can imagine the switch where his guitar is, eye-shot going through 1 ''column'' of 3pdt lugholes [three lugs in a row, the needle-holes in the lugs can only be seen through when viewed from one side]...if you can see through holes in 3 lugs...that is one ''column'', an SPDT switch, independant from the other two SPDT Switches [3 of these comprise a 3PDT, separate but simultaneous switches.
  Beep mode the DMM [test that it beeps when B/R leads touch].
  One lead on the center lug of the switch, the other around the perimeter until it finds the connected lug that beeps. across from these two is the third lug...a complete SPDT !, one of three, the other two are now the columns to the left and right of the switch you just found, each has 3 lugs, these 3 lug [SPDT] switches are isolated from each other.

[Paul Marossy]

In the pic above for the way the switch is aligned the numbering is wrong,it should go:
147
258
369

123 is one pole, 456 is the second and 789 the third. 258 are individual commons for that pole.

This is correct:

A symbol is a symbol is a symbol. First time that I ever heard that there was a specific way to number the lugs on a 3PDT switch. I don't number them exactly for this sort of reason - because two different people will do it two different ways.

[bumblebee]

To Bumblebee:  Sorry about the numbering.  When I took the pic and posted it previously I just numbered it arbitrarily.  I didn't know that there was an industry standard.  

Industry Standard? Not sure about that.....this is just the way the majority of people I've communicated with do it. Its the way I do it and its the way I feel it should be done as it makes most sense to me. This is how I number them on schematics that I share, this is the only way I've seen them numbered on schematics BTW. Its the way Electro-Harmonix does it too so that alone makes me think there is something to it. I've only ever seen DIY n00bs (I mean that in a friendly way   ) do it the opposite way....
The one and only reason I number the lugs is so that beginners with zero build experience can also use my diagrams and schematics. If I draw schematics just for myself i dont number them at all as I know which way the switches go.

In the pic above for the way the switch is aligned the numbering is wrong,it should go:
147
258
369

123 is one pole, 456 is the second and 789 the third. 258 are individual commons for that pole.

This is correct:

A symbol is a symbol is a symbol. First time that I ever heard that there was a specific way to number the lugs on a 3PDT switch. I don't number them exactly for this sort of reason - because two different people will do it two different ways.

See my comments above.  

[aron]

CHeck out this link:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=970.0

[bumblebee]

CHeck out this link:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=970.0

This is the exact reason I first started viewing the numbers like:
1
2
3
because
1
2
3
is one switch and
4
5
6
is another switch and when you count you count 1 2 3 not 1 4 7.
I saw that years ago and its always stuck in my mind and it seems to be the most common way of viewing the switch rather than sideways and the vertical numbers seem to go with this.

Its also the article that taught me how 3PDT's (and SPST/SPDT etc)  actually work.   Before that I was sailing blind just wiring from the diagram not knowing "why" the switch worked a certain way and not the other.

[Paul Marossy]

A continuity tester is your friend. It can answer all these sorts of questions for you. 

[jkokura]

My question is, how does your arguement about the numbering of the poles help the OP? You're passionate about it, I get that. You might have a point, I don't think it's a very big deal.

With respect, and in the tone of a friend, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. You could have pointed out that your numbering system might make it easier without telling another guy he was 'wrong' and making yourself seem a big authority.

I personally don't use numbers to understand it, neither does that article that Aron posted. It's not that big a deal and you don't need to continue arguing. Hope you take this with my desire to encourage you to be a little less harsh - I'm OFTEN too harsh right off the bat and would love people to encourage me to calm down when i'm being too pushy.

Jacob

[bumblebee]

Over react much!?!?!?!?

Hows it help? because some people turn the switch sideways and number and wire it vertically, hence a non working pedal.

Passionate? No, just using common sense. A lot of beginners use numbers to know where to solder to so I think getting the numbers right is relevant. i personally don't bother with numbers on schems that are just for myself as I know how switches work.
I just try to be as helpful as is possible to newbies.