Author Topic: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel  (Read 22786 times)

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Pigyboy

Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« on: April 03, 2010, 08:34:57 AM »
I ran out of Press n Peel the other day and recalled having seen a tutorial on using photo paper in place of P 'n P.  I also had no photo paper but did have a stack of lightly coated glossy stuff so I gave it a try.  I was amazed at how much better it works that PnP. It even worked for the tiny board lettering that I had never been able to get to work with the Pnp. Use it in the same manner you would use the PnP. The only change was to soak the board in cold water to remove the paper. Try it and see what you think.
And you'll have to admit, I'll be rich as shit
I'll just sit and grin, the money will roll right in....
                                                            - FANG

philbinator1

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 05:21:41 PM »
I ran out of Press n Peel the other day and recalled having seen a tutorial on using photo paper in place of P 'n P.  I also had no photo paper but did have a stack of lightly coated glossy stuff so I gave it a try.  I was amazed at how much better it works that PnP. It even worked for the tiny board lettering that I had never been able to get to work with the Pnp. Use it in the same manner you would use the PnP. The only change was to soak the board in cold water to remove the paper. Try it and see what you think.

I often see people talk about this glossy paper and i'm often mystified...can you explain further where you got the paper, what brand, what it's normally used for, and the process you used step by step?  would be much appreciated  :)

cheers
phil
"Hows are we's?  We's in the f*cking middle of a dinners meal!  Dats hows we am!" - Skwisgaar Skwigelf

John Lyons

« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 07:45:24 PM by John Lyons »
Basic Audio Pedals
www.basicaudio.net/

gtudoran

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 10:35:02 PM »
Hello guys,

I can confirm that glossy paper (in romania you will find it as chalk paper) is better then press n peel and the tutorial from http://www.mrdwab.com/john/How-to-make-PCBs.html posted by JL is verry good.
Ohhh and btw i get glossy paper for about 3 cents / sheet in romania, the blue press n peel is like... 4$ per sheet.

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

Pigyboy

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 01:31:27 AM »
HI,
Glad to see I am not the only one who has found this trick.  The type of paper I used just happened to be lying on the copier at my wife's office. It was a tad thicker than normal paper but not card stock and had a slick, glossy coating that keeps the toner from fusing into the paper.  Another thing I found was when transferring the toner to the board was that the glossy paper seemed to 'tack' to the lightly heated copper so the transfer did not slide around on top of the board. Press n peel needs the toner to tack it to the copper so if you do not get it just right the transfer does not come out clean. The glossy part of the paper sticks lightly at first and gives you time to make sure the alignment is right.  Also check out this link

http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/tech_support/no_etching_tank/no_etching_tank.html

These guys offer a similar product as press n peel but the link shows how to use very little etching acid to etch a board in about 2 minutes.  This technique involves wiping the etchant across the board with a sponge.

Check out their other product 'Decal Pro'. It is the best way to get professional graphics at a low cost and you don't have the lame looking water transfer or sticker edges anymore.

Let me know if anyone else has luck or new ideas with any of this.
And you'll have to admit, I'll be rich as shit
I'll just sit and grin, the money will roll right in....
                                                            - FANG

philbinator1

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 02:26:51 AM »
Thanks John!  Awesome tutorial, i read all of it including the thread here.  Some q's though, you're talking about bog standard
photo paper, the kind you chuck in the inkjet to print family snaps etc?  I have some 6"x4" that i got from Dick Smith but it's not
gloss finish (it's matte).  It says on the box it's 260 GSM...it also says water-proof.  Do you think it'll work ok?

EDIT:  also i'm using Ammonium Persulphate, will that work in place of the Hydrogen Peroxide and Sulphuric Acid?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 04:16:14 AM by philbinator1 »
"Hows are we's?  We's in the f*cking middle of a dinners meal!  Dats hows we am!" - Skwisgaar Skwigelf

John Lyons

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 04:50:44 AM »
You will need to experiment with the photo paper, many people here will give you many opinions
on what they use. Plain paper, magazine paper, pnp blue, sticker backing sheets, transparency sheets etc etc etc.
Just play with you temperature, and pressure and you'll find something that works.
pnp and thin papers take less pressure. Thick papers take a littl more pressure, not much though.
The etchant isn't as critical just follow the directions for each. They will all etch fine, just take different times
but you can see the progress so it's not big deal.
Basic Audio Pedals
www.basicaudio.net/

philbinator1

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 06:21:16 AM »
You will need to experiment with the photo paper, many people here will give you many opinions
on what they use. Plain paper, magazine paper, pnp blue, sticker backing sheets, transparency sheets etc etc etc.
Just play with you temperature, and pressure and you'll find something that works.
pnp and thin papers take less pressure. Thick papers take a littl more pressure, not much though.
The etchant isn't as critical just follow the directions for each. They will all etch fine, just take different times
but you can see the progress so it's not big deal.

Okay thanks, when I get around to etching (hopefully not far off) I'll let everyone know what happened.

BTW John, 4000 posts, nice!   :)
"Hows are we's?  We's in the f*cking middle of a dinners meal!  Dats hows we am!" - Skwisgaar Skwigelf

frank_p

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 06:42:21 AM »

served

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 07:01:32 AM »
I am also using a regular Photo paper. You can buy it from any photo store or computer store. Its just a paper that is ment for printing photos on. So its very common stuff.
For PCB you just print on it with regular laser printer and iron the print on a PCB, just like with thet Blue sheet, only difference is that the quality is actually better, its cheaper and you can get it easily.

John Lyons

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 07:54:00 AM »
I have a stock of Staples paper for now.
I meant to try the sterling paper but have not
tried it yet.
Basic Audio Pedals
www.basicaudio.net/

roseblood11

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 08:02:35 AM »
I´ve tried all those different papers and found that simple catalogue paper works best for me.
I use the catalogue from reichelt.de

Brymus

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Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 09:06:38 AM »
I used the articles from Playboy  ::)
But the thinner paper in " Entertainment " magazine worked well too.
You can see the toner just sitting on the surface its kinda cool.
I also found you need less pressure when using glossy paper as it will smear/thicken the traces a little if you press too hard.
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience

flintstoned

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2010, 10:42:24 AM »
Use those old '70s playboys for a truly vintage big muff pi
I forgot what I was gonna say here.

served

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2010, 12:13:10 PM »
How much heat do you apply?

trixdropd

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2010, 01:17:28 PM »
HI,
Glad to see I am not the only one who has found this trick.  The type of paper I used just happened to be lying on the copier at my wife's office. It was a tad thicker than normal paper but not card stock and had a slick, glossy coating that keeps the toner from fusing into the paper.  Another thing I found was when transferring the toner to the board was that the glossy paper seemed to 'tack' to the lightly heated copper so the transfer did not slide around on top of the board. Press n peel needs the toner to tack it to the copper so if you do not get it just right the transfer does not come out clean. The glossy part of the paper sticks lightly at first and gives you time to make sure the alignment is right.  Also check out this link

http://www.pulsarprofx.com/pcbfx/main_site/pages/tech_support/no_etching_tank/no_etching_tank.html

These guys offer a similar product as press n peel but the link shows how to use very little etching acid to etch a board in about 2 minutes.  This technique involves wiping the etchant across the board with a sponge.

Check out their other product 'Decal Pro'. It is the best way to get professional graphics at a low cost and you don't have the lame looking water transfer or sticker edges anymore.

Let me know if anyone else has luck or new ideas with any of this.


this product in your link is truly awesome. the best i've found.

michaelj36

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2015, 04:40:05 AM »
Finding this just now as I'm about to jump into etching PCBs.

mrdwab links are dead but I found a mirror.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080827214718/http://www.mrdwab.com/john/How-to-make-PCBs.html

GGBB

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2015, 06:32:12 AM »
John's web site has changed. The article is now here: http://www.basicaudio.net/how-to-make-pcbs.php.

davent

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2015, 07:45:00 AM »
And a recent very sad update on the OP here...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=110554.0
dave
"If you always do what you always did- you always get what you always got." - Unknown

karbomusic

Re: Glossy paper works better than Press n Peel
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2015, 08:42:24 AM »
Just a general comment on the process and glossy paper. That sure seems like an awful lot of labor getting that paper off compared to PnP etc. Seems like the labor exceeds the price of the PnP.  

I have recently done some testing just using plain transparencies, came really close but haven't gotten the transfer quite as good as PnP which I have had really good luck with. I just ordered a Fab-In-A-Box kit out of interest though.