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DIYstompboxes.com  |  DIY Stompboxes  |  Building your own stompbox  |  diy sustainer pickup conversion 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: diy sustainer pickup conversion  (Read 47517 times)
space_ryerson
Posts: 453

Tim M.


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2010, 11:38:04 PM »

Having been reading all of the threads over there, regarding the 'base circuit' over at the project guitar forum, some people seem to have achieved what they feel is success with that circuit, and many have criticized the circuit and the lm386. I feel that the popularity of the circuit is due to its simplicity, and the high availability of the parts involved. Regarding the LM386, the first post of this thread is worth noting. Also, a while back, earthtones audio posted a method of making a PWM amp from a LM386, which interested me, but I have yet to build it.

There are many avenues to chase down beyond that. Without going into depth, building better drivers helps, automatic gain control/compression/limiting seems to help balance the response, and phase alignment seems to help the efficiency/strength of the sustainer. Using a different amplifier section than the LM386 is an often argued point as well.

I personally have learned a lot from reading the various patents involved with sustainers, but they are dense. If you want the patent numbers, I can dig them up.

I own a guitar with a Floyd Rose sustainer in it, and while the circuit is complex, and the installation is very invasive on a guitar, the end results have been worthwhile.
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2010, 01:55:22 AM »

Having been reading all of the threads over there, regarding the 'base circuit' over at the project guitar forum, some people seem to have achieved what they feel is success with that circuit, and many have criticized the circuit and the lm386. I feel that the popularity of the circuit is due to its simplicity, and the high availability of the parts involved. Regarding the LM386, the first post of this thread is worth noting. Also, a while back, earthtones audio posted a method of making a PWM amp from a LM386, which interested me, but I have yet to build it.

There are many avenues to chase down beyond that. Without going into depth, building better drivers helps, automatic gain control/compression/limiting seems to help balance the response, and phase alignment seems to help the efficiency/strength of the sustainer. Using a different amplifier section than the LM386 is an often argued point as well.

I personally have learned a lot from reading the various patents involved with sustainers, but they are dense. If you want the patent numbers, I can dig them up.

I own a guitar with a Floyd Rose sustainer in it, and while the circuit is complex, and the installation is very invasive on a guitar, the end results have been worthwhile.


Thank you space_ryerson - when you say "some people seem to have achieved what they feel is success with that circuit" - which circuit do you mean?

It'd be nice to hear which circuit psw actually recommends mating with his driver type shown in the Project Guitar tutorials     ....I see that the monster the main thread started almost seven years ago, so he ought to have have a fair idea of which circuit to recommend by now!
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deadastronaut
Posts: 9785


Rob H. LONDON


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2010, 03:54:14 AM »

hi guys...i found this on youtube..some russian dude made his own e-bow...

he's got a schematic on there of the amp part of it.....using  a 386

surely this is the same principal?....or is it?..

but with a large coil...or am i a dumbass?...lol..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkQhRFS6sRM&feature=related/url]
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psw
Posts: 192


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2010, 04:33:08 AM »



There's one...how many circuits for a buffered amp do you need?

Quote
If you want "speaker-like" feedback, which is imperfect (i.e. not resonant for all notes) by its nature- KVB's simple approach already does more than that (ambient chord swells and etc too).  If you are looking for something beyond that, then maybe the Fernandez/PSW/pickup approach is more appropriate.

Yeah, that is an interesting idea, but the model C sustainiac like devices put a lot more power than !W into a very powerful electromagnetic tranducer...and devices that I've tried like that tend to make a bit of a racket...and are not responsive all over the neck.,..

Quote
Obviously a sustainer is different things to different people, but in my opinion, even a DIY electromagnetic guitar sustainer should at least yield the basic commercial offering functionality, ie strong controlled, well balanced & even sustain across all strings & fret positions  (ie mainly fundamental frequencies) but with the option of blooming higher harmonics when required.


The DIY sustainer can be what you make of it...that's the essence of DIY...also, the reason the thread has gone on so long is that people keep wanting to improve or modify what you can get from the technology.

There is no "perfect" sustainer. Mine does not pretend to mimic the commercial units at all...but it will give strong controlled sustain and harmonics on all strings in any position, predictable and quietly.

How many times does it need to be said, the principle is to regenerate the signal through the driver to move the strings...much like a speaker coil moves it's paper cone. That means an amplifier...I have a circuit that I use generally now, I have published the tweaks to get a response like mine...generally a 100uF output cap will get you in the ball park. If you want even more "control" or "evenness" then you are going to have to add an AGC circuit...now I am sure there are some compressor circuits on this forum you might consider...probably replace the buffer too if going that way.

Sounds like spoon feeding to me. The result of me saying this is THE circuit would be to attract criticism and kill development. I ahve used a multiple of circuits personally, the F/R is one that someone else recomended and many have had succes with that...noisy cricket sounds ok, how about that gem if you have quite powerful HBs...maybe search for a few preamp/LM386 kits...that's what I originally used for ages...

The ebow uses a basic LM386 circuit, it is the general standard for small battery powered amps...but there are others...

But there is no "perfect sustainer" nor is there, nor can there ever be a "definitive" circuit!!!

It's not deflecting, it's just people clearly not understanding the point of it all and seeking out the appropriate circuit from the range available, many right her on this forum.

For my own work, I have long ago achieved a decent balanced and dynamic sustain and harmonic generation. However, some like the more sterile sound of the eveness of a fernandes...I don't! So, the fernandes and similar use a lot of condittioning to make an even sutain and killing off the very qualities that I like...you can't have it all without a lot of switches and circuitry...my role is done for now...

My circuits are purposely tuned to give fundamentals ona ll strings and locations but bloom into harmonics below the note C 5th fret, g string. It does not ahve to do that, it is a sound I like. I get a slower bloom time with less intensity that I can control...and get yet another harmonic on harmonic mode as well....If I wanted a heap of switches on my guitar I could ahve any number of different response dialed in. The point is, what you describe is regularly achieved by many and for years with this DIY stuff, it doesn't sound as tame as the fernandes et al...but then, that's what makes them so lack luster. Generally though there are so many unique implementations and adaptablity just on things like compact drivers or pickup.drivers that the commercial systems don't come close to and a circuit generally 1/4 the size even with DIY parts... The point of the "project" was to take this technology further than teh commercial guys took it, and strip back some of it's complexity and maladaptive features.

But then, this is not a project for everyone, quite likely not for you! But then, it really isn't that much harder surely that attaching a vibrating toy to the headstock and certainly will work a lot better.

If you want a particular recommendation, and you are serious about building this thing, tell me exactly what the guitar and pickups are and what you are seeking in terms of response and I dare say with over 7 years with this stuff I could point you in some direction...there are clips of my guitar about, but it sounds like you haven't heard them...so I suppose there is no point you suggesting that you want to have it sound like me! If looking for off the rack...check Ebay for a commercial unit and go with that...
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deadastronaut
Posts: 9785


Rob H. LONDON


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2010, 05:22:17 AM »



There's one...how many circuits for a buffered amp do you need?




27,003...lol... icon_lol

hi psw...ive been looking around at different pickup/driver designs...

i have an old humbucker pickup ive pulled apart..waheyy i found 2 bobbins inside..with the 6 pole pieces..
i saw a guys pickup/driver where he used the 6 individual pole pieces rather than the metal strip...!

would you recommend this or would you go with the strip like your designs..?
i presume the strip drives it more!..

as for being spoonfed...well i am a bit of a noob and havent a patch on you more knowledgable guys..
we are not all at the same level of understanding..yet!... icon_redface
and im sure that all the guys interested in diy appreciate the amount of time and late nights you've obviously
put into this great project...i for one do...now wheres that spoon?...lol...cheers rob. icon_lol
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2010, 05:35:41 AM »

Just to be clear - after all these years you've been involved with DIY sustainers, this circuit....



 is your recommended circuit?

If so, what can a DIY builder expect performance wise from your DIY driver & that circuit? (strong/even sustain across all strings etc)

Personally, I'd have though an automatic level control (ALC/AGC etc) would be essential to control the guitar's large dynamic range ...which is missing there - why don't you feel it's necessary? (ie by putting that circuit forward as your recommendation)

BTW - what you call 'spoonfeeding', I call having a vital part of the overall picture to launch from! (why would anyone want to waste time & go over ground that's already been covered  Huh
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DougH
Posts: 6059


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2010, 07:32:18 AM »

FWIW I played more with the KVB idea last night. I think he did this in his demos, but one thing I found extremely effective was to drive the LM386 amp with a pedal. My favorite was a Unidrive booster variation I built, and a Rangemaster works real well too. I'm going to implement an fx loop between the buffer and the two LM386 inputs so that the effect (Rangemaster for example) won't load the guitar signal going to the guitar amp. This way I can still use a simple Y adapter to split the signal coming out of the guitar.

The Unidrive derivative is a full-frequency boost and it really made the guitar/sustainer come alive. I was getting endless sustain above the 12th fret on most notes, many that didn't react at all before. The Rangemaster added some very sweet harmonic blooms (like Rangemasters do). And all of this was with a clean guitar tone. Altogether I'm very pleased and I think I'm finally ready to finish this build.

One mistake I think people are making is to think there is a schematic that will describe this kind of system adequately. It's a bunch of different parts and the amplifier is a pretty small part of it. I have spent much more time with the transducer, working out where and how to mount it, getting the coupling right between it and the guitar, etc. Don't like the Ruby/Smoky/Little-Gem? Pick an amp- any amp. You may have to do some tuning with coupling caps and etc so breadboard it first. I love the Little Gem Mk2 because it is very quiet and stable.
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"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2010, 08:02:56 AM »

Thanks Doug - I'm not getting too hung up on the amp - that's the easy bit wrt a sustainer circuit (after all it's just one amp chip plus a JFET or opamp buffer)

Since it's so hard to find out what he's recommending over there on those Project Guitar threads, I thought I'd simply ask psw outright for his recommendation for a supporting sustainer circuit - he has recommended a runoffgroove 'ruby, which, at the end of the day is just a preamp/amp. I'm surprised that after many years of sustainer threads/discussion over on Project Guitar, that's his recommendation?!

Having recently looked at a few sustainer patents (& a schematic of the Kramer sustainer kicking about on the net), it would appear, all the commercial sustainers circuit have a form of built in compression & a bit of phase compensation.....but not the one put forward by psw above?

So back to my points for psw...

What kind of sustain could a builder expect from that rather basic setup? (eg is the sustain weak on some strings/frets, uncontrolled, any distortion etc?)

Why hasn't he recommended a circuit with even a basic AGC to restrain the dynamic range little?

Why doesn't he include his recommended circuit above in his tutorials? (because winding a driver is only half the sustainer story)




« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 08:46:38 AM by Gurner » Logged
space_ryerson
Posts: 453

Tim M.


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2010, 12:45:24 PM »

Thank you space_ryerson - when you say "some people seem to have achieved what they feel is success with that circuit" - which circuit do you mean?

Sorry to be unclear. I meant using the fetzer-ruby circuit with an 8ohm .2mm wound driver.

Since it's so hard to find out what he's recommending over there on those Project Guitar threads, I thought I'd simply ask psw outright for his recommendation for a supporting sustainer circuit - he has recommended a runoffgroove 'ruby, which, at the end of the day is just a preamp/amp. I'm surprised that after many years of sustainer threads/discussion over on Project Guitar, that's his recommendation?!

As far as I understand it, PSW has withheld his circuits since he is considering doing something commercial with it.

Quote
Having recently looked at a few sustainer patents (& a schematic of the Kramer sustainer kicking about on the net), it would appear, all the commercial sustainers circuit have a form of built in compression & a bit of phase compensation.....but not the one put forward by psw above?

Can you point me in the direction of the Kramer sustainer schematic? If it's the more recent version, then that's the same as the Floyd Rose sustainer. I've been meaning to trace out my Rev C Floyd sustainer circuit, but it's double sided with leads running under parts. It's a little harder than tracing out a Fuzz Face  icon_lol
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2010, 01:11:40 PM »

hello space_ryerson - tks for the update. Fair enough, holding back his circuit if he wants to sell them (I'd have expected to see them for sale by now though - are they? No?  ....hmm  icon_rolleyes ), but that shouldn't prohibit him just giving a simple recommendation for an accompanying sustainer circuit in his tutorial....at the minute, anyone new has to wade through (prolific) egotistical textual mud over on Project Guitar ....only to find out that there is no circuit recommendation at the end of it all!

Sorry, it was the floyd rose sustainer I meant (I always get the two muddled)  - and a quick sortie using google images reveals it's yours, lol!!

http://spaceryerson.com/sustainer/images/FRS_Schematic.jpg
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:51:47 PM by Gurner » Logged
space_ryerson
Posts: 453

Tim M.


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2010, 01:41:57 PM »

Now that's funny! Unfortunately, that schematic doesn't have part values, and the Rev C seems to have some differences, such as adding what looks like an inductor to my eyes. By the way, that schematic is just from one of the patents.

I too find that forum very frustrating. I frequently hold back from posting simply because I don't have time to bicker.

If it's of any use to you or anyone else, here are pictures of the top and bottom of the Floyd Rose circuit board (but the part numbers don't correspond):
Top
Bottom
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2010, 01:50:13 PM »

Whilst the values would have been useful, it's easy enough to get the jist of what they're doing - I suppose if I was a night shift security guard on some out the way empty industrial estate that I could sit down and track down every component on your photo towards filling in the schematic blanks (but I'm not so I won't!)

I agree about the bickering over on Project Guitar - but I guess when there are big egos involved it's to be expected - but yeah....avoid!

« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:52:49 PM by Gurner » Logged
psw
Posts: 192


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2010, 07:46:30 PM »

Well...PG and this project does attract it's fair share of trolls...

I simply started it as a project like any other that I was doing personally...just like building a gui9tar or any of the other stuff...it took on a life of it's own...

But, I suspect in Gurner, a certain amount of trollish-ness and pedantic-ism that exceeds and no indication that he has or seeks to build the thing...but finds a bit of sport in following around the project and knocking it for all the things that it is and was...

Really if the only suggestion, which I am not really sure even is in these posts, is that you don't like me or my ego (which is not a dirty word btw, not even a 4 letter one) or anything else about me or my work...why are you following it. You surely must be aware that in the last year or so, all threads on sustainers have been closed down at PG and all discussion about it and even the threads disappeared, because of a few miscreant who want to hammer on about personal things about me or what I do without anything at all to show for it. Meanwhile over there, there are six active threads by others making it or similar ideas or exploring the technology further.

...

Look, I made a thing that works, I showed how it works, I built very many over many years with all kinds of circuits...many, many people over that time made the same or similar from that design or went on to make their own to their specifications.

Clearly Gurner has missed the whole point of my approach, perhaps he has read a few too many patents, I have certainly read all that I could find, all the way back to the 1890's...but my approach is different and the comparisons and skepticisims are unfounded as you are not comparing the same things.

As his name suggests, perhaps better at pulling faces than any cohesive objective argument...and clearly hijacking threads to take shots at me instead of wishing to partake in the project...you guys really should start your own forum on it...you could do a whole conspiracy site that psw is keeping world changing technology from everyone while simultaneously holding the argument that I am so much hot air and these things couldn't possibly exist...which of course it doesn't, it's all in your mind that I have a secret super circuit...dear, oh dear. Many of the ideas have come directly from this site for goodness sake...

...

I did not set out to replicate the commercial systems, I set out to explore the technology which I successfully did in many ways and at some cost. I wanted to see if it were possible to take this idea, and the skills I have (limited as they may be) and try different approaches to the things, different sounds, different applications. You say it's ego, but the reality is that they worked. And, they worked with a wide variety of circuits...and without the need for complexity that is described in the patents...

But for every answer, there's always a come back, a shifting of the goal posts...ok, it works but it doesn't sound like a fernandes. Well, should it? Some actually don't like that sound. Oh, it's not "even"...well depends what you mean...all the strings sustain, you get harmonics everywhere and predicatably, there is zero noise...sounds like a sustainer to me...oh, but not like the one I'd like...well then, that's a different matter...lots of people feel that way, build on what I ahve done and create things that sound different again, according to their tastes and criteria.

And while I asked, there is no reply from Gurner as to whether this person actually wants to make the thing or even to describe exactly what he wants. Or even if he has heard the clips of mine...all it is is whining that I don't give away "my circuit" (I said it wasn't magic, so it is not my ego, but the magic you subscribe to it at work surely?)...well, lets see...here are some...



Very much like the various things I was doing in the early years while designing the driver...just a simple preamp and LM386 circuit...the whole point was to develop the driver so that it didn't need phase correction or elaborate phase correction...but I am hardly going to "recommend this though it works. For one, it is not wholly my design, you can get these things everywhere...it's just a preamped LM386 like the ruby and countless others. From the look of it, it is just your average opamp preamp circuit with variable gain. I did go in for complex AGC from a very early time...lets see...



hahaha...I always like this one...a sustainer patent from the 1890's...nothing new under the sun...no LM386's in those days...

here's a realization of the kind of things we were shooting for...again, different criteria...we were looking for low mod, better controls and implementation...not my drawing but a talented artist who also made several great sustainers...



Ahhh...here's a typical fernandes install in a jem...



Exactly the kind of thing I was seeking to avoid, huge cut outs in the guitar, lack of neck pickup choice, lack of control placement and options...so many things that could be improved over what is being offered...

This is the commercial technology...does it even look like mine?



Ahh...I hope you are appreciating me having to go through 22 pages of photographs documenting the work I have done publicly to find these things...some circuits...



Now...the first one if I am not mistaken is a Gem MKII (I didn't find it that good, I don't need that much power, but an interesting design for sure)...and various preamps and such...

So you see...there is no "ONE" circuit for these things...you are missing the whole point...

...

The aim was to produce drivers that would work by their inherent nature to drive the strings efficiently within the range of the guitar. Thereby, not needing a lot of AGC (though if you want a very tame less dynamic sound, you'd want to explore those areas) or any phase correction.

If I said it doesn't need a heap of phase correction because it forces the string to gradually move in phase with the driver and that the design is such that the phase is not bad enough to prevent proper operation...or that the driver is not capable or reproducing with it's resonant capabilities excessive runaway harmonic generation or even drive the strings beyond a fairly even maxed out range (depending on the power given it) (thereby creating it's own AGC) would you believe me? No, cause it does not fuel your fantasies about magic circuits and my methods of arriving at this simple device and formula. More recently, I have not measured and proved it mathematically...but you can hear it, it has been independently duplicated time and again, why then the skepticism.

If it were so easy, if there has been others working on this (and there surely have been a few) where are they before the sustainer thread, where are they now, where is the fruits of their labours. The sustainer thread has spawed not only dozens of successful designs of my own...had people duplicate some of that work...it has provided the only forum I know for such things and dozens of spin off projects. But, unlike those, and the many that didn't go anywhere, I personally am some how responsible for the frustrations of trolls to "get it"...hmmm

So, where were we, tripping down memory lane in the photobucket account...



Above is a working prototype of one of my newer designs that didn't get exposure because of the trolls and the closing ddown of discussion that this kind of thing leads to...the "wafer coil"...not really that much different except in size and construction for the original ones...quite possibly a commercial proposition, at least in the supply of such self supporting coils for experimenters.

Now...it is clearly not a DIY proposition, but one of the main trollish detractors over there claimed it couldn't and cant work...built one himself and surprise surprise...worked...then the goal posts moved...ah, but not like I'd want it to...sheeesh!



A pic of my apparently "secret magic circuit"...does it really look like there is that much in it. Do I seem like the kind of person who gives up such things because some guy wants to pull faces at it? No, that's why more about it hasn't been released...but does it really look that "impressive" that this is the secret magic thing? No...it is impressive in it's size, it has improved drive control, it has onboard circuit protection and direct LED power...and yes, even a touch of AGC in there...but that's not the "secret"...the secret has always been the various driver designs...

And how did I arrive at these things...well lets see if there are any pics...ahhh...



yes...a bucket of aborted coils from the wafer coil project alone...a couple of weeks work there...

I used trial and error methods making literally hundreds of variations and quite a few installations for no financial gain I can assure you...and mostly quite openly so that others wouldn't have to. And yet, and yet, there are still these trolls who can't accept the beeding obvious, the things work and have been verified by others time and again...you can hear mine for a start...why is that so hard to accept that some have had to stoop to my private life or replicate the exact same things with a "different amp and preamp" and suggest it is their own, nothing related to mine...even though the driver is identical and the circuit is exactly what I prescribe...a buffered or preamped small power amp!!!!

Again in the last post...oh "if I were a night shift guard"...well buddy, more power to you, clearly you can afford a commercial system and this seems to be exactly what you are kind of after...so why even mess your hands at DIY projects. Oh, I see no evidence of that, you apparently have the time and inclination to just troll about making suggestions about peoples occupations for no other purpose but to boost your own ego through lack of initiative.

I don't know what you actually do, or people like you...apparently not much...but a lot of the circuits are available for most things at the patent web site and the prominent patents are linked on page seven of the thread and how to go about finding them.

I suggest that you contribute, build something, go do some research, come up with some actual goals that you want...just anything...but you and others that simply want to hijak anothers project with mis-inforamtion and unhelpful abuse should really...well get a better occupation...perhaps a security guard where you can mull over all those conspirocies you seem to harbour towards me personally...you'd be good at that!





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psw
Posts: 192


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2010, 07:53:59 PM »


One mistake I think people are making is to think there is a schematic that will describe this kind of system adequately. It's a bunch of different parts and the amplifier is a pretty small part of it. I have spent much more time with the transducer, working out where and how to mount it, getting the coupling right between it and the guitar, etc. Don't like the Ruby/Smoky/Little-Gem? Pick an amp- any amp. You may have to do some tuning with coupling caps and etc so breadboard it first. I love the Little Gem Mk2 because it is very quiet and stable.


Yes...quite right...the placement of these things makes a difference, just like the qualities of the driver oil does in mine. I did build a little gem mkII (see above pic) but it wasn't quite right "for me"...I didn't need that much power or the power it consumes haveing to run off a single battery for instance.


Quote
hi psw...ive been looking around at different pickup/driver designs...

i have an old humbucker pickup ive pulled apart..waheyy i found 2 bobbins inside..with the 6 pole pieces..
i saw a guys pickup/driver where he used the 6 individual pole pieces rather than the metal strip...!

would you recommend this or would you go with the strip like your designs..?
i presume the strip drives it more!..

as for being spoonfed...well i am a bit of a noob and havent a patch on you more knowledgable guys..
we are not all at the same level of understanding..yet!... icon_redface
and im sure that all the guys interested in diy appreciate the amount of time and late nights you've obviously
put into this great project...i for one do...now wheres that spoon?...lol...cheers rob. icon_lol

You can see I ahve made amny drivers with individual poles...so...sure, I'd choose the slug pole, a 3mm coil so fill up the bottom half of the coil and wind as described...

got to run now...
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2010, 02:01:50 AM »

Dude, what is it with you & the keyboard?

So you see...there is no "ONE" circuit for these things...you are missing the whole point...

Erhm, no I'm not - & I think that after 7 years, it's surprising that you apparently continually duck recommending circuit - if you can't recommend one after all these years, then ok....I'll leave the reader to make of that what he will.

So, since you're being so cagey about the circuit - do you actually have you a sustainer system for sale?

« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 03:29:13 AM by Gurner » Logged
deadastronaut
Posts: 9785


Rob H. LONDON


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2010, 02:35:09 AM »

i think i'll stick to my ebow for now dudes...

or i might just play a note and do the rest of the sustain with my voice..whooooo...wheeee...lol...

it all seems a bit spurious......... icon_rolleyes
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2010, 03:21:33 AM »

i think i'll stick to my ebow for now dudes...

I'm not surprised - because it's now quite clear that when it comes down to a DIY sustainer circuit ....the one being touted is way too basic for a guitar sustain system - therefore, if you want a decent DIY sustainer system, you're gonna have to get cracking with the breadboard! (you got to wonder what folks have been upto for all those years if a runoffgroove ripoff cct - with not even the most basic of dynamic range control - is the main recommendation for a sustainer system  Huh?)

it all seems a bit spurious......... icon_rolleyes

My thoughts entirely.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 05:05:00 AM by Gurner » Logged
DougH
Posts: 6059


WWW
Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2010, 05:27:22 AM »

Yes...quite right...the placement of these things makes a difference, just like the qualities of the driver oil does in mine. I did build a little gem mkII (see above pic) but it wasn't quite right "for me"...I didn't need that much power or the power it consumes haveing to run off a single battery for instance.

Yes, I'm putting mine in a floor foot pedal and running it off of a DC power source. I wouldn't want to try running it off of a battery. I had too many noise problems with the single-ended version although that was on the breadboard and it may not be that noisy when boxed up. The extra power came in handy as well with this particular transducer.

What works and what doesn't very much depends on the transducer you use, mounting location and method, the guitar, etc. It's more of a mechanical system (in my case) than an electronic one- and the mechanics will dictate what electronics are needed. Definitely not "one size fits all", not in my experience anyway. There's really no way of determining what will work without jumping in and getting your hands dirty.
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"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
space_ryerson
Posts: 453

Tim M.


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Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2010, 02:00:13 PM »

I'm not surprised - because it's now quite clear that when it comes down to a DIY sustainer circuit ....the one being touted is way too basic for a guitar sustain system - therefore, if you want a decent DIY sustainer system, you're gonna have to get cracking with the breadboard! (you got to wonder what folks have been upto for all those years if a runoffgroove ripoff cct - with not even the most basic of dynamic range control - is the main recommendation for a sustainer system  Huh?)
I should say that some of the other posters on that forum have made more sophisticated circuits, but none of those circuits have been posted. I agree, you're gonna have to just breadboard and play with it. That's what I was planning to do whenever I get around to making a DIY sustainer.
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Gurner
Posts: 1314


Re: diy sustainer pickup conversion
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2010, 02:44:44 PM »

I should say that some of the other posters on that forum have made more sophisticated circuits, but none of those circuits have been posted. I agree, you're gonna have to just breadboard and play with it. That's what I was planning to do whenever I get around to making a DIY sustainer.

Yes space, I've skimmed through parts of that 300+ page thread & have seen some elaborate circuits by others - but in the light that psw seems to monopolize all the sustainer chat going back Eons - for a circuit recommendation, I'd have thought he'd table something better than a basic circuit simply lifted from runoffgroove    ...where's the ALC/AGC, where's the EQ/phase comp etc, etc. (that Fetzer Ruby circuit isn't particularly well suited at all)

Behind the torrents of text, repetitive pics & accompanying egotistical nonsense..... something doesn't add up.
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