Transparency Film

[Steve Mavronis]

Where do you guys get transparency film and why is it so expensive for Inkjet printers? I'm not interested in press and peel etching. I prefer the transparency method for crispness and detail.

[Mark Hammer]

They are generally obtainable at any office supplies outlet.  I don't know for a fact that laser transparencies are cheaper than those for inkjet, but if they are I would imagine it would be because the toner is fused and the ink has to have something to grip since it has nothing to be absorbed by (as it would with paper).  The acetate sheets are not simply acetate.  They are coated.

If one is making a small batch of boards, and can successfully apply the toner transfer (and mastering the iron can take a while for some folks), press and peel is more than crisp enough for 99% of all applications here, including those involving SMT components.  If one's intent is to make large batches of boards (i.e., dozens and dozens, if not hundreds), then I can see where using a single master and photo-resist etching would have some benefits.

[nosamiam]

Packages of it are pretty outrageously priced, but having a single sheet done by the copy people at Office Max is much more reasonable.

[KazooMan]

ebay.  Many offers for different brands and different size lots. 

[Steve Mavronis]

Press and Peel spreads when you iron it on as it melts. That's my only gripe. For example look at this initial board attempt that fellow forum user Brymus made from my layout with press and peel:



Compared to this one etched with the same size traces and pads that I printed using inkjet transparency film:



To his great persistence and credit Brymus kindly made 2 more after I took my PCB layout and shrank the black in my pattern 1 pixel all the way around in the GIMP graphics program to compensate somewhat for the PnP that he's using spreading out. His first attempt is the one at the top of this photo for comparison. The bottom 2 board etches turned out much better:

[chicago_mike]

3M Dual Purpose.  

CG5000

For ink AND laser.

Got mine at Office Depot.

[chicago_mike]

And the MG chemicals uv boards I get I can etch outside or use blacklight party style bubls. no more searching for UV specific bulbs. A few minutes and bang bang!

[Steve Mavronis]

3M Dual Purpose CG5000 for ink AND laser. Got mine at Office Depot.

How much was it and how many sheets in the box?

[tiges_ tendres]

Press and peel can be tricky.  It looks like the iron was too hot, pressed too hard and for too long.

[chicago_mike]

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/516989/3M-Dual-Purpose-Transparency-Film-For/

45 bucks. @ 50 sheets.

Note: throw your iron away. Get UV / light positive sensitized boards. You can also get a positiv spray coat to turn a non uv board into one. This way your not wasting a transparency by using the iron. Plus you easily have room on a single transparency for multiple pcb layouts. I got like 6 on one.

I did the iron thing at first and never came away satisfied. the light method is killer. Just get a thin piece of lexan, place it over everything and use a couple paper weights on the corners to hold it all down. have the lights just say 6" away or so and go listen to a song or two.

You don't need a dark room anymore, and you don't have to find expensive UV only bulbs. I got GE party blacklight bulbs, the new "energy saver" types.

[Steve Mavronis]

^^^ Yes I agree, the transparency 'photographic' method is the best way. Thanks for the 3M info. Too bad they don't make that in 20 or 25 sheet packs. Maybe I'll see if I can get my dad to pitch in for a pack since he makes his own boards for various electronic projects at home and at work.

That product says for Copiers And Laser Printers. Is one side 'frosted' to grab inkjet ink? I thought a copier (Xerox for example) is basically a laser printer with a fuser that heats the toner into the print media.

[chicago_mike]

I think they do make a 20 or 25 sheet bag. I always go over the top..

[davent]

Here, the local office supply store sell transparency sheets in boxes or as singles, a single sheet goes a long ways for me. For exposing MG Chemical boards and any other brand i've tried, i just use a regular everyday flourescent tube, 9 minutes about an inch away from the board.

dave

[Steve Mavronis]

Man, I have a rough time printing transparencies on a Xerox at work. The manual feed tray jams so I had to redifine what I put in a regular paper tray. It printed on copier transparency film I had left over but not much darker than when I tried the same thing on a LaserJet. I tried adjusting the black density settings to the darkest it goes too. The transparency film for InkJets with the frosted side prints the best black and truely opaque images of the 3 kinds of printers but I'm out of that film for right now. I'm trying to print sheets of patterns for my PCB layout and pedal labeling panel graphics for etching. The panel etching is done on a thin lamination of black on aluminum that will show through.

[Brymus]

Press and peel can be tricky.  It looks like the iron was too hot, pressed too hard and for too long.

Yeah it was pressed too hard and for too long.
All the tuts said to use lots of pressure for extended time...
I now have it down,
For anyone interested > 100 seconds at medium pressure.

And I should note the bottom two boards in that pic were done with pages from Playboy not Press N Peel.
Which I saw no need to use the PNP blue if I could do it with gloss magazine paper,hey the Playboy method adds Mojo to the board 
Which in my defense if you look at the text,to get that small of text to come out that good with toner transfer is probably the best you can expect.
I was even able to get the really small border to come out right using my "new" technique.

I have a batch of boards in my tank right now I will post some pics tomorow when they are done.

Maybe Steve will let me sell a few boards from "his" layout so you guys can build your own "Neo Classic 741" distortion pedal.
As is theres one board for me, one for Joe Hart, and one for Steve's proto type build.
I will be tinning them and mailing them out tommorow or Saturday.

[Steve Mavronis]

And I should note the bottom two boards in that pic were done with pages from Playboy not Press N Peel.
Which I saw no need to use the PNP blue if I could do it with gloss magazine paper,hey the Playboy method adds Mojo to the board 

I just want to know who is the centerfold girl embedded into my PCB, LOL

Brian, I have a slight revision (rev. that doesn't change anything really so no need for a redo. I'm going to have him make some extras in case I make several pedal copies or sell any circuit boards if there is any interest. I can't think about that until we prove this layout actually works by building it. My dad suggested that the 4 "strain relief" holes for the wires be like a regular pad with small hole (instead of a circle outline) to center his drill bit on:

[Brymus]

Yeah I only use the pages with text,photos bleed through and stick to the copper.
But these all came from last months issue specifically the article on mob boss' and son

Tell your dad a center punch is a good way to get the holes right.
But you still have to take your time and not get them a little off like I did in a few spots 

Here are the PCBs all tinned and ready to mail out>
The bottom one is RG's GEO 7 band EQ ,which he has kindly gave me permission to make some for sale,Thank You RG !!


Heres your Steve>


And a couple of back ups I made a little wider so they can be mounted with stand offs instead of just using the pots >

[Steve Mavronis]

Thanks Brian they look nice,

Hey what's the deal with glossy pages for transfer? How does that work - using the pages just cover the PnP while you iron it on?

As far as you selling boards made from my PCB layout, I need to think about it because I'm new to this. I'm not sure how the permission thing worked with RG if he had any restrictions or not. I may want to reserve the option in case I decide to sell any pedal clones or not. Unless I can think of a way for people to tell it would be a custom built pedal made by me vs. someone else's copy version selling my PCB layout. Otherwise I'd be in a sense competing with you for a share of the boutique pedal market. It would be like someone cloning a Analogman modded pedal and selling it as their own product. Maybe if they turn out good enough people may want to buy a hand built pedal by me if they are not into building their own, or buy a kit or PCB like the GGG stuff. Then again I may decide it's not worth the hassle and just publish the PCB transfer pattern freely and other info needed for anyone to DIY their own pedal. But I'm getting ahead of myself thinking about it. I don't even have a working pedal built and tested yet! That's why I don't mind you and Joe building your own copy using my PCB layout to get your feedback and recommendations.

It's not that hard to redo any layout and make it your personal design having it's own unique look using something like the free ExpressPCB. All I did was study photos of the old 250 PCB and came up with a new twist on it. One you start connecting parts and traces it kind of lays itself out in a brand new way!

[Brymus]

I use the magazine pages instead of the PNP blue, so I cut out a piece of magazine paper (text only no pics) big enough to cover the trabsfer pattern and tape it over the pattern already printed on a piece of paper then run it through the printer again.The toner sticks to the page of gloss magazine paper but because the magazine paper is coated the text doesnt come off when I iron it on > only the transfer.

I simply asked RG if I could use his design to etch some PCBs for sale,and I asked Rick if I could use his layout they both said yes...