tone control..no bass..help!..

[deadastronaut]

hi guys ive been messing with a tone stack...but i get no bass control..

any ideas?....see anything obvious?...

its got a great scoop which is what i was after...but i must have missed something out when i converted from tone stack calc
to this....
its not on a vero or anything...im breadboarding...ok.

ignore the double line....


/img]

[deadastronaut]

boo hoo....whaaaa whaaaa...

lol....

[Fender3D]

The layout seems ok,
unless you missed the ground connection or broke a pot...

[deadastronaut]

The layout seems ok,
unless you missed the ground connection or broke a pot...

yeah have checked..all ok...hmmm..  lol..

strange though when i turn the treble pot anti clockwise i get a bit of bass...somethings up...!!!!
hmmm...

[petemoore]

  So you've got a little to go on already.
  Figure something's impeding the bass...what could be doing that ?
  Sounds like what mentioned above or the alternate SP around a little capacitor [the one that impedes LF's when the controls are 'so] isn't there somehow.
 

[deadastronaut]

 So you've got a little to go on already.
 Figure something's impeding the bass...what could be doing that ?
 Sounds like what mentioned above or the alternate SP around a little capacitor [the one that impedes LF's when the controls are 'so] isn't there somehow.
 

hmmmm.....very cryptic.....erm.......er.....what!!!!....lol.

i think your trying to give me a clue pete...lol...erm...er...whats sp?...

[petemoore]

  After typing all of this and all of that, try driving your tc with a buffer?
  You said tone control, no actives to work voltages etc.
 Pretty much wired right or not, or the wrong tone control/application is another option.
 If you have bass here', then lose it after 'there', there must have an impedance which cuts between here and there. Cryptic >ok.
 Find where the signal bass gets chopped, right around there's got to be an impedance to bass/not to treble that lets the treble through not the bass.
 It's such a straightforeward thing that gets compli-with all the parts, explaining starts to sound cryptic when it's really kind of look and find what is [and isn't] there to carry the signal past x point where the bass gets lost.
 When you think of all the ways that bass not treble can be cut at a Tonecontrol, the immediate culprit can reasonably be suspected as dwelling near where the signal path is losing bass..such as through a through a small enough capacitor to impede LF's.
 Great way to cut bass [try others if you can find them], is pretty easy to vary how well it works at being a LF impedance by routing around the dinky treble passin' capacitor [tone control]. If this 'secondary route' around the LF cutting capacitor is somehow an impedance = to the HP filters little capacitor, the little capacitor effect [only hf's] is noticable.
 

[anchovie]

Rob,

I think that can be simplified to:

• What are you running into this tone stack?
• If whatever you are running into the tone stack doesn't have a low impedance output, try adding a buffer before the tone stack.

[deadastronaut]

Rob,

I think that can be simplified to:

• What are you running into this tone stack?
• If whatever you are running into the tone stack doesn't have a low impedance output, try adding a buffer before the tone stack.

cheers anchovie, sorry james......yeah im running a hi gain 386 distortion..then into the tone stack...ive been messing around trying to get
a good scoop...so a buffer from the 386 then into the tone stack...ahhhh..i see...sort of..lol.
so what kind of buffer circuit would you recommend?....cheers again...and cheers pete even though you fogged my brain up lol...

[anchovie]

Hmm...the 386 should drive a tone stack fine. The output impedance is low enough to drive an 8 ohm speaker so I don't think that's the problem.

[deadastronaut]

i think i'll try lower cap values...hmmm....see what happens..lol...

[stm]

Deadastronaut, the capacitor values of your tonestack are WRONG.

I replaced the values you posted in the Marshall tonestack of Duncan's Tonestack Calculator (TSC) and it shows that BASS knob is acting on 10 Hz frequencies with negligible effect at 80 Hz and above.  Correct your components according to original values shown in TSC and you'll have something to start with.  Also, the 517k loading resistor at the output of the tonestack is necessary for proper frequency response.  Having too little impedance (below 470k) or too much impedance (1M and above) will affect the response of your tonestack for good or bad.  You can check the effect of the loading impedance with TSC and then adjust the circuit/buffer that follows the tonestack accordingly.

[deadastronaut]

Deadastronaut, the capacitor values of your tonestack are WRONG.

I replaced the values you posted in the Marshall tonestack of Duncan's Tonestack Calculator (TSC) and it shows that BASS knob is acting on 10 Hz frequencies with negligible effect at 80 Hz and above.  Correct your components according to original values shown in TSC and you'll have something to start with.  Also, the 517k loading resistor at the output of the tonestack is necessary for proper frequency response.  Having too little impedance (below 470k) or too much impedance (1M and above) will affect the response of your tonestack for good or bad.  You can check the effect of the loading impedance with TSC and then adjust the circuit/buffer that follows the tonestack accordingly.

cheers for that...yeah i did change the values to get a better scoop....but yeah your right..i should start from the tried n tested
first....that 517k goes from the treble 2/out to middle 1 then ground yes?...
hmmmm.....i''l have another look at that...thanks for the info man...will post results..hopefully someone else will learn from this too...

also would the fender ts be better for scoop stuff?...looks it....
rob.

[deadastronaut]

ok did it....voila bass..but only a bit...only had a 560k..not 517..strange value...

the midddle is nice...works good..

but the treble clockwise is well tinny...but when turned anti clockwise..it goes more bassy than the actual bass..

and the overall volume is much quieter...hmm..

hmmmm.....getting there slowly lol....cheers guys..appreciate ya help...


edit....hmmm..sounds pretty good now....goes well with my mad thrashy distortion stage.....


edit..

[deadastronaut]

edit....hmmm..sounds pretty good now....goes well with my mad thrashy distortion stage.....  


edit..

STRANGE..i just did a recording of this project ive been flogging to death...funny when i use a deadish battery i get a wicked distortion
but when i use a newish battery i get a wicked blues/funk sound...much louder...

hmmmm here's what i recorded dead battery first..thrashy.but quiet.then i change the battery to a newish one/blues/funk..much louder...

cool effects...you know what i'm going to ask!...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/distblueasample1.mp3

hmmmmm.......i love the thrash and the funk...but it seems they must both run on different volts...

[slacker]

Sounds good especially the second half of the clip.

cool effects...you know what i'm going to ask!...

If you haven't already, put a big cap between the power pin of the 386 and ground, 100uF something similar will be fine. Then try different value resistors between 9 volts and the power pin, that will  drop the voltage to the chip and hopefully you'll find one that gives you the sound/voltage you like.

[deadastronaut]

Sounds good especially the second half of the clip.

cool effects...you know what i'm going to ask!...

If you haven't already, put a big cap between the power pin of the 386 and ground, 100uF something similar will be fine. Then try different value resistors between 9 volts and the power pin, that will  drop the voltage to the chip and hopefully you'll find one that gives you the sound/voltage you like.

cheers slacker...yeah love that funky blues sound..especially considering its through a dodgy hi fi too...

no i didnt have a cap on there..but i soon will ...lol....thanks so much...

come to think of it i have seen that on the DM and the burning crunch etc..so thats power conditioning i suppose??

rob.