Cab Sims ,please tell me about them,which is the best IYO ? New project

[Brymus]

OK I read PRRs idea about modifying the Condor with a +/-15V supply and the idea struck...
I have a thrift shop enclosure I didnt know what to do with now I do.
I want to build a versatile multi-cab sim with a headphone amp and possibly a graphic EQ as well,and tuner output also.
Can you guys post some different cab sim schematics or links,as well as your favorite headphone amps ?
I want to use this on my desktop with my PC
Also with an amp/PA and or mixing board.
It should have at least one headphone amp two would be better.
Maybe a small two or three channel mixer for the inputs ? (to use with MP3 or another instrument at same time) not sure on this...
Be able to take a range of signal levels
A graphic EQ ? switchable between before and after the cab sim stage ? (Im thinking to help with different headphones after/EQ effects before)
I have some suitable transformers for the PS,the GEO graphic EQ still on my breadboard.
Point me in the right direction and I will do the homework/breadboarding and post the results for everyone to use.
First step a list of cab sim/ spkr emulators I would liek a variety of spkr options not just one or two.

[FiveseveN]

I know it's not in the "spirit of DIY" but we have to be realistic: if you want quality and versatility go digital. Effects processor or even better, PC running a convolution-based cabsim.
E.g. the cheap crummy V-amp2 I use and love has most if not all the features you're looking for:
- 15 cab models
- 3-band EQ after cabsim
- 2 configurable outputs plus a headphone output
- stereo auxiliary input with adjustable level
- obviously, lots of space for presets and MIDI control
And it's about 50$ second hand.

[ghostsauce]

About the digital thing, I've yet to find one that didn't sound like garbage. I'm sure there are better ones than what I've tried, but I've never found anything worth using. I do a lot of recording in Garageband for the company I work for and although the cabsims in there aren't terrible, it just doesn't cut it at all.  I haven't tried any of the DIY cabsims, although the condor really interests me.

[Brymus]

I appreciate the feedback and advice,not to sound like a jerk but
I did want the Behringer Vampire head for the midi controller and stereo effects,but...
I have tried many PC based amp/cab sims and while they are better than they ever have been ,but they still all sound the same to me,just better than a few yaers ago.(the good ones)not to mention rather expensive,and require alot of modern PC to run at low latency.
I have a thread in the Lounge about different PC software and VST amp/cab emulators.
And after building my own effects for a short while, I went back and tried my digi multi effects that I loved for so long ,and honestly it just doesnt compare to the real analog stuff.It makes me laugh when I think how cool I thought my sound was before I started DIY my gear.

I am looking for what cab sims you guys like personally
What you think sounds the most authentic and real.
And what headphone amps you guys would suggest for monitoring/practice/recording use.(needs to be fairly clean for recording use)
The mixer/buffering/splitting I think I have a handle on. (all op amps)

[frequencycentral]

dschwartz's Multicab SIM: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

[Brymus]

dschwartz's Multicab SIM: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

Thanks Rick,I think all of his stuff is first rate.
I just finished reading the thread and posted asking for a copy of the bass version.
I think I will have to breadboard several different ones from other builders as well and see which sound best for my use,and if I actually need several spkr options or just a couple.

[Ibanezfoo]

I mashed the speaker sim, condor, and dschwartz's multi cab into a single ugly box.  It works for me.  Pretty versatile.  I like it better than my POD or other digital stuff.  I don't care for the amp/cab emulators on the PC at all...

[Brymus]

Ibanezfoo
Do you have a link for the speaker sim you used ,I have links for the Condor and D Shwartz cab sim.

[Brymus]

OK after several hours of searching I have a pretty long list of schematics /designs to breadboard and listen to.
Still doesnt tell me what you guys think sounds best....
That would help narrow it down some.I guess which sound accurate is what I am really after.

Really after searching several different ways the question has come up SO,SO many times and everyone seems to point to their own thread of the one they designed (more homebrew designs than I thought) or to the Condor (most popular)

I think Cynical Man's (Alex) is the one that looks most promising so far (at least from a learning how to design one aspect) ,I liked how he picked the speakers he wanted to emulate and inlcuded the EQ graph of the spkrs with his schematic.,spice sims ect.
Something I should do ,it will require re-reading a ton of filter notes ,but thats how we learn right ?
The pre amp,headphone amp and mixer,tuner out will be much easier.(at least for me)
I am thinking of adding a TDA 20xx chip amp or finishing my LM3886 and use this as the pre amp for it too.

First step will be deciding which spkrs/cabs I want to emulate,
I think my EVJ cab with the Eminence Lady Luck would be sweet ,and no one has done that yet.
Then add the Greenback and maybe an Alnico or a Fender bassman cab setup,also an 8inch Jensen and 15 inch EV would be nice if I can actually get the filters to duplicate the responses close enough.

I am still open to suggestions ,
I think I have found the majority of popular ones from the net at least.

[FiveseveN]

I think I have found the majority of popular ones from the net at least.

Just in case you missed this one by Teemu Kyttälä, I think it's a nice recap: http://www.hexeguitar.com/diy-cabsims_e

The choice of your "goal", i.e. intended frequency response indeed is important. It also helps if you can figure out what controls (variations in this respose) you'd want to implement.
I've also found that using a stereo setup makes all the difference in the world and I believe there were some hints about this in D Shwartz's thread.

[DougH]

The general analog diy speaker simulators are basically just EQs. I designed/built one myself a few years ago, and it worked great through a p.a. but it does not sound as good in a direct recording setup. There is more to the "speaker" sound than just EQ. Digital impulse response algorithms used in software plug-ins are supposedly the most realistic. If you have heard those, and don't think they are up to par, then you probably aren't going to get there building your own EQ, either. IMO, a speaker simulator can be a useful tool for some things, but will never replace the sound of a real speaker.

But if you are interested in building a "speaker-like" EQ I would suggest:

1. Do a little research on active filters. Op amps are the easiest way to go here.
2. Look at some typical speaker frequency response curves. You can get those at speaker mfr sites like Celestion, Eminence, and etc.
3. Learn how to use a circuit simulator like Spice, and design your own simulator to model the speaker freq curve that you are interested in. It's really not that difficult to do. You just chain together a number of filters to model the major peaks and/or dips in the speaker curve. I think mine had 3 or 4 filter stages, I can't remember now.
4. Put it on the breadboard and tune it by ear. When you are satisfied with the sound, then build it up.

No offense to anyone but I haven't heard any clips of any DIY speaker sims that I thought sounded very good. The one I built was okay, but just okay. Back when I was doing a regular church gig, if it was summer and I didn't feel like hauling my amp and cab in the heat, I could use the speaker sim and plug my pedal board into the p.a. It sounded good enough, in that the p.a. speakers helped with some of the "speakerness" of the sound and the speaker sim kept it tuned like a guitar cab. But I would not use it for direct recording, as it sounds too "dry". I would use the garage band amp/cab sims before I used that speaker sim direct.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV

Edit: BTW, there was an old thread on here a few years ago where someone experimented with a phase shifter circuit, adding a mode in which the LFO is disabled and it could be set for a fixed amount of phase shift. He recorded a clip with the wet side on one stereo channel and the dry on the other, with a speaker sim. This added a slight delay that really helped the direct signal sound much better. That might be an interesting approach for "spicing up" a speaker sim.

Edit2: Ah, here it is: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.msg567411#msg567411

Daniel Schwartz posted this clip. It seems like an exciting approach, to me, although I never pursued it. The clip sounds great.

[Brymus]

I think I have found the majority of popular ones from the net at least.

Just in case you missed this one by Teemu Kyttälä, I think it's a nice recap: http://www.hexeguitar.com/diy-cabsims_e

The choice of your "goal", i.e. intended frequency response indeed is important. It also helps if you can figure out what controls (variations in this respose) you'd want to implement.
I've also found that using a stereo setup makes all the difference in the world and I believe there were some hints about this in D Shwartz's thread.

No I had not seen that one yet.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, that is a very good read!! Anyone interested in a cab sim should read that !
It has loads of links and very detailed graphs of what each sim does EQ wise
Also the LHX2 website is a very good read Linked in the article on HEXE
http://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/
Their sims are rated as one of the best by the author of the HEXE article (Teemu I think)

And thank you ! Doug,very good advice,I do need to learn Spice it would have been a big help with my EQ build (still not done)
And will be neccesary for this project.I will look into the phase issue as well, I do realize there is alot more to emulating a spkr than just the frequency response and resonant frequency,I just wasnt sure what (still not completely sure)
I just posted in D Swartz' thread yesterday asking about the bass sim he did and that the schematic is down now.

I think with this extra info and some filter cookbooks I have plenty to keep me busy with the cab sim for months...
Thanks again guys.

Unless anyone else has something to add I think I have what I need to get started.

[Ibanezfoo]

Ibanezfoo
Do you have a link for the speaker sim you used ,I have links for the Condor and D Shwartz cab sim.

Just search for SSS in these forums.  Plenty of info on it along with whatever mods and options.   

[dschwartz]

sorry i haven´t responded brymus,
the thing is that i never built the bass version of the multicabsim, i dont play bass, and, i didn´t care that much
it was just a matter of tuning the filters to the range of a 1x15 or so..

[pravudh]

Hi.there
I am from Thailand,and just finished this Fender Cabsim last night.This is my third build for my friend.
a lot of cabsim on net but I think this one best for me. here the link for schematichttp://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/

[Pakaloabob]

Can anyone tell me if Speaker Saturation Sims are intended to be used on their own or in conjunction with a cab sim?

[Brymus]

No worries Daniel,I found some of your postings in other forums ,I just had to translate the Spanish to English 
Your a busy guy on the web !
That Chilian (?) Forum looks interesting.
The one where you are a Simpsons character looks even better.

Hi.there
I am from Thailand,and just finished this Fender Cabsim last night.This is my third build for my friend.
a lot of cabsim on net but I think this one best for me. here the link for schematichttp://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/

Thats a really nice looking build,Very clean and nice looking components too (weird to say but true)
I already linked to the LHX2 in my post ,two posts above yours.
Yeah, that one seems to get really good reviews on the net.

Pakaloabob > I think sometimes you use one with a spkr sim,some spkr sims have them built in it all depends.
My understanding is the spkr sim replicates the frequency response of the spkr, and the saturator replicates what the mechanical issues involving the spkr contribute to the sound.
Maybe another thread is needed to answer that question better ?

[Versus]

Hi.there
I am from Thailand,and just finished this Fender Cabsim last night.This is my third build for my friend.
a lot of cabsim on net but I think this one best for me. here the link for schematichttp://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/

Update link, please!

[screechingowl]

The car vin quad-x has a great sounding 4x12 cab simulator built in. The circuit looks pretty simple. I've been wanting to build a stand alone unit for some time. Schematic can be found here: http://www.carvinmuseum.com/pdf/amps/QUADX_SM_ANALOG.pdf

[Brymus]

ZOMBIE thread.
that looks pretty cool,it drives a spring reverb tank ,and has built in noise gate,and is in stereo.
Might have to try this one too.