Tonepad Fuzz Face: odd sound decay?

[lazerphea]

Hello all!
I've breadboarded the Tonepad Fuzz Face, with AC128 paired Ge transistors and negative ground, but the sound seems to have an odd decay: here's a sample.
I'm not a Fuzz Face connoisseur, so I don't know if this is normal, because of the kind of transistors, or not. Does someone have some idea? Maybe is't just because it's breadboarded?
Thanks all!

[petemoore]

I'm not a Fuzz Face connoisseur, so I don't know if this is normal,
  I am, and I figure it might be ''normal'' depending on the definition of noramal.
  But the voltage readings on the pins will tell so much about the circuit operation that anything [besides everything else..node counts/polarity mostly] might help too.
   because of the kind of transistors, or not.
  Yeap, Ge transistors and bias and temperance and phase of the Tarot moon.
  Does someone have some idea?
  RG has thousands [to the power of thousands doesn't sound exaggerated], and he wrote down most all the good ones, they're at his site: GEO.
  Maybe is't just because it's breadboarded?
  Yep, could be loose connect but otherwise BB's might add a touch of noise or two...wired on nothing or anything, it's the connects/R's/C's and bipolar Q's orientation to PS etc. that makes or breaks the function.
  Include everything called by sticky thread: Debugging: what to tod when it doesn't work... the Q-pin voltages now !

[lazerphea]

I' sorry Pete, you're right! I didn't supplied any information because I was not sure I was having some problem going on here!

So, here are all the info:

1. Name: Tonepad Fuzz Face
2. Source: http://www.tonepad.com/getFileInfo.asp?id=82
3. No modifications to the original layout
4. No parts have been substituted; I got 2 ac128 Germanium transistor; on my DVM i read an hfe of 170 for Q1 and 407 for Q2
I refer to this picture for the pinout: http://www.grindheim.net/electronics/occc/AC128.jpg
5. It's the negative ground version
6. Everything is fine: the pots work, it makes a nice fuzz sound, but the notes seem to have a strange decay (see sound sample in my first post): they kind of oscillate, and if I struck single notes they stop to sound in an unnatural way, as if they were muted.
7. Battery is 9.34V

Voltages
Q1:
E: 9.33V
B: 9.26V
C: 9.21V

Q2:
E: 9.24V
B: 9.22V
C: 0.82V

C1:
negative pin: 0.07V
positive pin: 9.26V

C2:
negative pin: 9.24V
positive pin: 9.33V

[lazerphea]

Sorry, please ignore the hfe thing; reading the "Technology of the Fuzz Face" article by R.G. I found out that Ge trannies cannot be measured with a DVM...

[petemoore]

  Q1 emitter to ground..
 Probably a DVM glitch between Q1C and Q2b reading [which are connected and should read same exact voltage].
 AC128 is PNP transistor.
 NPN Neg. Gnd. won't work.
 Use a battery for now, and a PNP+Gnd. circuit, be sure every polarized component has +/- [positive and negative] oriented correctly:
 Battery/supply, Diode?, transistors, electrolytic capacitor[s..all have polarity markings on the [if polarized component this is 99+% the case] on the schematic, and the component polarities can be found in the data sheets.
  Everything relevant to polarity in the data sheets must match the schematic chosen.
 

[tubelectron]

Hi lazerphea,

I listened to your sample : the sound is NOT normal, you should have long and regular decay, dissapearing in the noise, specialy when the fuzz control is maximum.

You probably have made "the big stupid mistake" somewhere... be suspicious and re-trace on a paper your schematic accurately from your wired PCB and you will find it : maybe wrong PSU polarity or inverted pinout of a transistor or anything easy to fix, i guess.

A+!

[lazerphea]

Pete and Bruno, thanks for the advices!
I'm now investigating the positive ground thing; as soon as I'll get home I'll rewire everything and let you know!

[lazerphea]

Ok, I managed to make it works properly (well, I think so...): sample.
I made a mess with grounding, mixing positive and negative grounds! :p :p
Thanks all!!!

[tubelectron]

Ah - yes : now it works as it should normally work, laserphea !

But - IMHO - a bit rougher than my FFs : this is probably due to your guitar pickups which are easily "hotter" than those of my 1980 ES-335TD...

A question : do you know a reliable website for hosting samples like yours ? I tried mediafire.com but it's not worth...
How do you post it in this forum ?

A+!

[petemoore]

  Alls good because FF sound comes through now.
 +1 FF shorting PS sorting experience.
 

[lazerphea]

Ah - yes : now it works as it should normally work, laserphea !

But - IMHO - a bit rougher than my FFs : this is probably due to your guitar pickups which are easily "hotter" than those of my 1980 ES-335TD...

Yeah, I recorded the sample with my Steinberger, which mounts EMG89 active pickups!

A question : do you know a reliable website for hosting samples like yours ? I tried mediafire.com but it's not worth...
How do you post it in this forum ?

A+!

I store my mp3s on my own website... maybe you can try this: http://www.filedropper.com/ thought I never used it...
After you've uploaded your file somewhere, you post them here by writing:

Code Select Expand

[url=LINK TO YOUR MP3 FILE]CAPTION[/url]
As an example, I posted my previous sample by typing:

Code Select Expand

[url=http://www.paoloscala.net/diy/fuzz_ok.mp3]sample[/url]
I hope this could be of some help!

[lazerphea]

 Alls good because FF sound comes through now.
 +1 FF shorting PS sorting experience.
 

Yeah!!!
Thanks for your advices, man!

[tubelectron]

OK - laserphea,

With that kind of guitar and (active/hi-gain) PU's, I am not surprised by the roughness...

Thanks for your infos about posting/hosting sound samples - I'll dig it, for sure...

A+!

[lazerphea]

OK - laserphea,

With that kind of guitar and (active/hi-gain) PU's, I am not surprised by the roughness...

Thanks for your infos about posting/hosting sound samples - I'll dig it, for sure...

A+!

No prob, Bruno! Thanks to you for the advices!

[Quackzed]

for hot pickups into a fuzz, theres also the trick of sticking a resistor or better a trimmer at the input, as done here...

it should help if you decide its too fuzzy or harsh from the hotter output of your stienbrenner...hamburger.... victor-borge......
... oh whatever!!