Author Topic: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller  (Read 213453 times)

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aron

NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« on: August 09, 2010, 03:26:21 AM »
I am pleased to announce that I have a new item in the store. It's a PT2399 controller called the Taptation written by The Tone God.
Here is the data sheet: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation.pdf
Application note: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation_pt2399.pdf

The kit comes with the controller and a digital potentiometer so you can start using it right away.

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=65

Thanks to The Tone God!

Aron
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 02:52:16 PM by aron »

petemoore

Re: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 09:11:56 AM »
  This should help spice up the control factors, as well as ramp up the worm can opening rate ! Cool !
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slacker

Re: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »
Very nice :)

The Tone God

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 03:39:51 PM »
I'm really happy with this product. With the TapTation controller you can turn any PT2399 based delay basically into a Deluxe Memory Boy all for $20. But the TapTation can be used for more then just delays. You can use it as a clock source for sequencer / Vanishing Point type effects. You know all those threads about digital clock noise ? Well TapTation solves that problem and adds the tap tempo function. TapTation can even be used to make a quick tap tempo tremolo or to replace the LFO in somethings like phase 90s. Its not a one trick pony part.

Over the next while I'll post an article on various mods to be used with the TapTation. Fun will be had. :)

I hope everyone enjoys it.

Andrew

Brymus

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  • Bryan G. - Somewhere in the Mohave Desert USA
Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 04:36:32 PM »
Way Cool !!!
Looking forward to those write ups on more mods.
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
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SPAZ

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 08:19:26 AM »
  Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?

Marcvv

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 10:49:13 AM »
Great!!

I already ordered the set in Aron's shop and hope to hear about your notes.

Did you create a layout for it?

Thanks, Marc
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The Tone God

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 02:51:20 PM »
Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?

Three tempo divisions are accessible by a single ON-OFF-ON SPDT switch which are 1/1, 1/2, 3/4 so if the input tempo is quarter notes you will get quarter, eighth, and dotted eighth. Then there is a double time input that doubles the output tempo so you get 1/2, 1/4, 3/8 which would be eight, sixteenth, and dotted sixteenth for a total of five different divisions. The double time input is sometimes handy where you don't want to tap the time in but you do want to switch between double time delays. The modulation output follows the output tempo time as well.

One of the mods I was going to publish is how to access all the divisions through various means.

People should take note that the TapTation uses a 100K pot which gives you access to the longer, but more lofi sounding, delay times over a 1000ms. If you only want the shorter better quality times from the 50K pot circuits you can connect the double time input and it should limit the range to 50K.

Also this controller accepts multiple input taps not just the two taps that most tap tempos do. TapTation will average out the time entered just like the big boys. This makes it useful for syncing to other external digital clock sources as well.

TapTation will also except either momentary or toggle switches for tempo input so if you don't have or can't get a good momentary switch you can use a normal toggle switch like a 3PDT switch.

One of the cool things is if you can you can buy a cheap delay like a Fab Echo for around $20 then buy this kit and in less then an hour's worth of work you will have nearly a Deluxe Memory Boy for around $50. Killer bang for your buck.

Andrew
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 03:14:25 PM by The Tone God »

Brymus

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  • Bryan G. - Somewhere in the Mohave Desert USA
Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 04:38:16 PM »
Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?

One of the cool things is if you can you can buy a cheap delay like a Fab Echo for around $20 then buy this kit and in less then an hour's worth of work you will have nearly a Deluxe Memory Boy for around $50. Killer bang for your buck.

Andrew
Any plans to document how to do this for us "paint by numbers" DIY folks ?
That alone would be worth buying one.
I'm no EE or even a tech,just a monkey with a soldering iron that can read,and follow instructions. ;D
My now defunct band http://www.facebook.com/TheZedLeppelinExperience

mth5044

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 04:47:34 PM »
From a purely consumer point of view (rather than a DIY one), this seems to have more features than the PTAP. Do you know enough about the PTAP that you could compare and contrast what your product does against the PTAP? Features, limitations, which does one thing better than the other, etc.

phector2004

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 05:52:38 PM »
I agree with Bryan, any step-by-step walkthroughs/mod schematics/tutorials?

Can I otherwise mod the Echo Base I haven't built yet to incorporate a "Taptastic Mode" switch to get dotted eighths without the hassle? Might have a look at that in the near future...


Thanks for making this, Tone God! (Diana/Andrew?)

darwin_deathcat

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 06:06:02 PM »
This is really great! I have a Fab Echo that i don't use anymore, so I'd really like to see some notes on how to combine this new tap tempo control with the Fab Echo guts. Will it matter that I've already modified the fab for adjustable delay time, infinite repeats, and max wet signal? I'd obviously rehouse the thing, so I'm assuming that I'd need to figure out how to wire in a more sturdy  replacement momentary switch for the fab's little tactile bypass switch....
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The Tone God

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2010, 04:18:22 AM »
Any plans to document how to do this for us "paint by numbers" DIY folks ?
That alone would be worth buying one.

I certainly can do that but for the time being you can check out this thread for various mods for the Fab Echo.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64519.0

To use the TapTation all you would need to do to the Fab Echo is find a 5V connection, ground, and instead of the delay time pot on pin 6 wiring the TapTation in and your done.

I have tried to give as much information as I thought needed in the two app notes posted including a note for the pt2399 interface.

Can I otherwise mod the Echo Base I haven't built yet to incorporate a "Taptastic Mode" switch to get dotted eighths without the hassle? Might have a look at that in the near future...

I have not looked at the Echo Base but I would think you should be able to. All the TapTation circuit needs from the delay circuit is the power (5V), ground, and the connection to the time pin on the PT2399 (Pin 6). The rest of the circuit can remain the same.

This is really great! I have a Fab Echo that i don't use anymore, so I'd really like to see some notes on how to combine this new tap tempo control with the Fab Echo guts. Will it matter that I've already modified the fab for adjustable delay time, infinite repeats, and max wet signal? I'd obviously rehouse the thing, so I'm assuming that I'd need to figure out how to wire in a more sturdy  replacement momentary switch for the fab's little tactile bypass switch....

As mentioned above all you need is the power lines and pin 6 of the PT2399 and your good to go. All the audio remains untouched so the infinite repeat and max wet signal mods do not affect anything or need to be touched. The TapTation will replace the delay time pot but you can reuse the pot if its linear in the TapTation circuit for the delay time control.

In that Fab Echo modding thread I include a mod to force the echo to be on all the time so you can then drop a 3PDT switch in for true bypass. You can get both the TapTation and 3PDT from Aron and while your at it grab a second 3PDT switch for the tap tempo switch.

I did use a bunch of Fab Echos as the test platforms for the TapTation.

From a purely consumer point of view (rather than a DIY one), this seems to have more features than the PTAP. Do you know enough about the PTAP that you could compare and contrast what your product does against the PTAP? Features, limitations, which does one thing better than the other, etc.

I took a quick look over the PTAP. I'm going to compare to the large version of the PTAP to TapTation. There are some pros and cons for each as they have slightly different implementations.

The PTAP uses a 50K pot for a max around 600ms. The TapTation uses a 100K pot for a max around 1125ms, of course longer times will result in some fidelity loss but some may like that for its "analog-ness"

The PTAP has four time divisions: quarter, eighth, dotted eight, triplet eighth. The TapTation has five time divisions: quarter, eighth, dotted eight, sixteenth, dotted sixteenth.

The PTAP uses the delay pot to select the time division. The TapTation uses switch(es) to select the time division.

The PTAP has a single tempo output. The TapTation has two outputs one for the time entered and one with the time division applied. This allows you to see the time you entered and what the delay time is with the division. Also you can sync other logic circuits with either outputs.

The PTAP has a switching schem for switching between the manual and tap modes using the footswitch. The TapTation overrides the delay pot when a tempo is tapped in. To go back into manual mode you turn the delay pot more then 5% from the setting when the tap tempo took over. This is similar behaviour to most commercial tap tempo delays.

Its not clear if the PTAP can average multiple taps or it just uses the last two taps. The TapTation will accept two or more taps and average up to the last four taps.

Its not clear when the PTAP applies the new tempo. The TapTation applies the new tempo about one second after the last tap is entered. This prevents weird delay pitch shifting while entering multiple taps.

The PTAP has a built in switch debouncing. The TapTation debouncing is external. The reason for this is it allows the builder to decided the level / type of debouncing which can be as simple as a R/C network as in the datasheets and app notes. It also allows the TapTation to be interfaced to other logic circuits without having the debouncing interfering.

The PTAP does not have a modulation output. The TapTation has a modulation output with a period width selection feature so that you can modulate the delays using a BS170 MOSFET and use the period width control to act like the chorus / vibrato switch on the DMM. The modulation follows the tempo time with division applied. This output can also be used as a LFO for other circuits like phasers and tremolos.

The PTAP has a calibration mode. The TapTation does not.

The PTAP only accepts a momentary switch. The TapTation accepts either momentary or toggle switches like the 3PDT switches Aron sell so you can order those switches with the TapTation kit instead of having to source momentary switches else where.

The PTAP costs $16.50 with a PCB availible. The TapTation costs $20 with no PCB availible...for now.

I should also mention that all profits from the TapTation goes to Aron for this forum. Its my way of supporting the forum.

Andrew
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 04:49:34 AM by The Tone God »

Skruffyhound

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 06:17:29 AM »
Really nice Andrew. Looking forward to see how this develops.

BoxOfSnoo

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2010, 12:02:02 PM »
Does the TapTation solve this problem with the PTAP on the Echo Base?
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mth5044

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2010, 12:08:33 PM »
Excellent, thank you Andrew.

slacker

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 03:20:25 PM »
Does the TapTation solve this problem with the PTAP on the Echo Base?

Have a look at page 4 of the application note, the bit about the effect of the modulation on the tempo. Basically the same thing will happen with the Echo Base, if you turn the modulation all the way down the small resistance of the transistor probably won't have a noticeable effect on things, as soon as you add modulation it will throw out the tapped tempo, but like I've said before, if you're adding any significant amount of modulation you're not really likely to be bothered about exact tempos.
What you could do is replace the transistor in the Echo Base with the mosfet arrangement from the appnote, that way with the modulation depth on minimum there is zero resistance in series with the digital pot and everything will work as planned.
I'm going to order one and try it out, it would be pretty cool to be able to switch between the original Echo Base modulation and the taptation's tap tempo modulation.

darwin_deathcat

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2010, 03:23:57 PM »
Quote
As mentioned above all you need is the power lines and pin 6 of the PT2399 and your good to go. All the audio remains untouched so the infinite repeat and max wet signal mods do not affect anything or need to be touched. The TapTation will replace the delay time pot but you can reuse the pot if its linear in the TapTation circuit for the delay time control.

In that Fab Echo modding thread I include a mod to force the echo to be on all the time so you can then drop a 3PDT switch in for true bypass. You can get both the TapTation and 3PDT from Aron and while your at it grab a second 3PDT switch for the tap tempo switch.

I did use a bunch of Fab Echos as the test platforms for the TapTation.

This is GREAT! I think I see what my next project is going to be! I have a spare box from a defunct chorus that I can use. I've got the switches, so alls I need will be the module! Thanks for this!
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dmc777

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2010, 03:33:01 PM »
Nice. Can't wait to see how this works with the Echo Base.

The Tone God

Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2010, 01:42:12 AM »
Does the TapTation solve this problem with the PTAP on the Echo Base?

No. The delay going out of sync is just a the nature of the beast. To do pitch shifting you have to adjust the delay time which means you have to be off a bit each time. Those differences accumulate over time. There is no way around it unless you add an dedicated vibrato and leave the delay time untouched but that makes things more complicated and is not worth it IMHO. I must say though I never found it to be much of a problem unless using very long and multiple repeats or setting the modulation depth to some extreme setting.

What you could do is replace the transistor in the Echo Base with the mosfet arrangement from the appnote, that way with the modulation depth on minimum there is zero resistance in series with the digital pot and everything will work as planned.
I'm going to order one and try it out, it would be pretty cool to be able to switch between the original Echo Base modulation and the taptation's tap tempo modulation.

I really like the modulation the TapTation creates. A MOSFET is used for its low on resistance but I don't know if the Echo Base oscillator can drive it hard enough and accurately within the MOSFET's operating range. The TapTation gets away with this because it is an unfiltered PWM output which is a square wave that is switching the MOSFET between full on and off with the off resistance limited by the depth pot. There is no in between range to deal with in the MOSFET so you don't have to bias or match MOSFETs. By adjusting the duty cycle the ratio between on and off changes giving a lower or higher average resistance perceived by the pt2399. It makes things very simple.

Andrew