Is this DI recording "fuzz" acceptable?

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

So i am about to use my DIY effects in a new way, mainly sending soft-synth sounds to my pedalboard and capturing them with an interface.

But there is a bad fuzz under every recording with the interface which is not string noise and not "general" noise imo.

It is more prominent on the low strings. It is independent from the picking strength, preamp gain, guitar volume etc. There were no clipping on anything including software, preamp etc, stuff was recorded about -20db.

I tried out a Cort G260 with a humbucker, a cheap ibanez bass and a custom strat like guitar with singles. I tried it out in a windows based computer with two different drivers and then on a Macbook Pro with OSX. The noise is the same.

Here is a sample, it is more prominent in the last 20 seconds:

http://soundcloud.com/dontpostthepear/fail (my friend was strumming the strat with his thumb while i monitored the levels in the software)

Is this normal?

[ayayay!]

For a guitar using a DI, yes this is completely normal, but not acceptable.  If you're doing the soft-synth sounds through your pedalboard, are you going to be using a synth?  Or a guitar?

If you're going to be using a synth, try it out.  It might be just fine.

If you're going to be using a guitar, then look into either building a cabinet simulator or purchasing a DI with a cab sim/emulator built in.  I use a Behringer GI100, which is basically a clone of a Hughes & Kettner Redbox.  Search around the forum for some great cab sim designs.  Check out runoffgroove.  For my time and money, I couldn't beat the Behringer. 

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

For a guitar using a DI, yes this is completely normal, but not acceptable.  If you're doing the soft-synth sounds through your pedalboard, are you going to be using a synth?  Or a guitar?

If you're going to be using a synth, try it out.  It might be just fine.

If you're going to be using a guitar, then look into either building a cabinet simulator or purchasing a DI with a cab sim/emulator built in.  I use a Behringer GI100, which is basically a clone of a Hughes & Kettner Redbox.  Search around the forum for some great cab sim designs.  Check out runoffgroove.  For my time and money, I couldn't beat the Behringer. 

So basically that underlying noise is always there with a guitar or a bass but you can't hear it because the amp+cab kind of filters it out?

For the soft-synth stuff i would send out the signals from my DAW through my soundcard and i would feed that line out signal into my pedalboard and then i would record the effected signal with the interface.

I knew about cab and ampsims but i thought that this is a fault of the device. I mean this fuzz like noise is kinda prominent with a bass.

[ayayay!]

So basically that underlying noise is always there with a guitar or a bass but you can't hear it because the amp+cab kind of filters it out?  

Well, yes and no.  You can get an almost identical nasty clip from an amp & cab too if your mic input is too hot.  It's all about impedence matching, inductance, and high frequency rolloff.  Electric guitar AC signal all by itself is very hot.  Control it before it hits your recording interface and you'll be fine.  

I don't use any kind of amp sim from my pedalboard.  Just the pedalboard to the GI100, then out to the recording preamp.

At home I don't use/need a preamp.  I pop it right into my M-Audio USB interface (cheap!) and it sounds great.  

[a soBer Newt]

what kind of interface are you using? imo using the sound card to record audio is not going to cut it, you need some type of "professional" interface.

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

what kind of interface are you using? imo using the sound card to record audio is not going to cut it, you need some type of "professional" interface.

An ART USB Dual Pre. It says it can handle signals up to +6dBu.

[ayayay!]

I think he's referring to the PC sound card, not the Pre

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

I think he's referring to the PC sound card, not the Pre

the USB in the name of the interface implyes that after the mic preamp there is an ADC (analog-digital converter) so you get a digital output signal through USB.

BTW i tried out with a shitty squier strat of mine and i did not really heard the problem but the signal/noise ratio were horrible.

maybe i should attenuate the guitars signal somehow? but if iturning down the volume knob then there will be treble loss? maybe i should use a DI box before the interface?

[ashcat_lt]

It's normal.  This is exactly what an electric guitar plugged into a Hi-Z input sounds like.  There's no distortion, it's just that you (and most of us) aren't used to hearing the highest harmonics produced by the strings, transduced by the pickups, and passed by the filter (IE pickup inductance, cable capacitance, etc...) built into the guitar.  The guitar amps/speakers through which we are used to hearing these things can't reproduce those higher harmonics.  If you was to "reamp" this through either a real amp/cab or an amp/cab sim it would sound perfectly fine.  

This is not a deficiency in your system, and what you intend to do with the synths should work just fine as long as you keep the levels reasonable.  It is quite likely that your interface will be capable of overdriving your pedals, but that is a separate issue and will sound different.


(Honestly, I'm hearing some string buzz.  This is partly normal, but an action adjustment and somewhat better left hand technique could improve it a bit, but you'll still want some cab sim.)

[ayayay!]

It's normal.  This is exactly what an electric guitar plugged into a Hi-Z input sounds like.  There's no distortion, it's just that you (and most of us) aren't used to hearing the highest harmonics produced by the strings, transduced by the pickups, and passed by the filter (IE pickup inductance, cable capacitance, etc...) built into the guitar.  The guitar amps/speakers through which we are used to hearing these things can't reproduce those higher harmonics.  If you was to "reamp" this through either a real amp/cab or an amp/cab sim it would sound perfectly fine. 

This is not a deficiency in your system, and what you intend to do with the synths should work just fine as long as you keep the levels reasonable.  It is quite likely that your interface will be capable of overdriving your pedals, but that is a separate issue and will sound different.


(Honestly, I'm hearing some string buzz.  This is partly normal, but an action adjustment and somewhat better left hand technique could improve it a bit, but you'll still want some cab sim.)

I agree, it's normal.  As in, that's what I would expect to hear.  But going back to his "acceptable" part of the question, I'd say no.  I mean, I wouldn't want to hear it without a little "help" first. 

WhenBoredomPeaks, I think w/ a DI, you'd still get that.  That's why I'm trying to steer you towards a cabinet emulator/sim.

Let's try this another way:  You play your guitar through an amp, right?  Or headphones at a minimum?  You want to mimic the pleasing experience of that, if at all possible.

Here's a recording I made the first night I got the GI100.  Pedalboard -> GI100 -> M-Audio USB interface -> Audacity.  That's it.  Perfect?  No.  And the playing stinks, but you get the idea.  I'm sure there are far better products too, but for an ampless setup it works for me.  http://www.box.net/shared/p7xqtkzvlp

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

I tweaked some EQs and used some cabsims on the signal, it sounded kinda good. (because the eq/cabsim removed/ those high frequencies)


Is it safe to say that if i would have a guitar amp with a perfectly flat 20hz-20khz response at it's every section (tonestack, speakers etc.) then i would hear the same fuzz like noise "behind" my notes?

[ayayay!]

Well now we're on a different subject, if I follow you correctly.  You've gone from mimicking a guitar amp to recording a guitar amp, which is fine, but I just wanted to differentiate.  If you're micing the guitar amp, you will need to simply watch the signal over the mic, and play close attention to the amps eq.  Yes, you can hear almost identical types of fuzz-like noise in a mic'ed amp situation, but IME that's more related to clipping (hence the signal comment above.)

Making sense?  

There are so many things to consider, that it's often quite hard to just do a pedalboard through DI straight into the console without a few tricks first.  I know that's what you're after, and it can be a pain.  Hang in there.  

Check this article out.  Very good info here.  The trick for me was removing all that garbage before it even gets there, which I've managed to do.  http://www.harmonycentral.com/docs/DOC-1652   (Read the "But First.." section)

[ashcat_lt]

There's a reason that keyboard, bass, and acoustic guitar amps are different from most ams dedicated to electric guitars, and this is basically it.  Those instruments usually want better fidelity and a wider frequency response.  I personally don't care for that zinginess on an electric bass either, but many do.

If you think about it, a "guitar" speaker would pretty much be called a "woofer" in any other context.

A passive DI into a mic pre will generally reflect an impedance to the pickups a bit lower than what you get from a typical active "instrument" input on an interface or even a pedal.  Plugging directly into that passive DI (no active stages between) will reduce some of that top end nastiness, but might not get you all the way there.

I didn't think, though, that the point was recording guitar.  You wanted to run some VSTis through your pedals.  They will have a different timbre altogether, and you will have different expectations for their sounds.  I think it'll work fine as long as you watch for (unwanted) clipping.