Thormender

[askwho69]

Hello all just another quick question about fusing these 2 beautiful circuit.. Thor and Tonemender i like to make this 2 combine the circuit, my question is where can i connect the tonemender? at the end or at the first, i like also to has 1 volume only to control both circuit... is there a component that ill omit ? Please help Thanks


http://www.runoffgroove.com/thor.png

Tonemender

Heres both schematics

PS any mods that can make this circuit much much better you can add up

[askwho69]

can i bump anyone

[foxx]

I would do it as runoffgroove has done with the thunderchief... If you compare the non-stack version http://www.runoffgroove.com/thunderchief.png with the stack version http://www.runoffgroove.com/tc-tone.png, they've just inserted the stack after the second gain stage with an extra gain stage to compensate the loss of the stack. So i would give it a try to drop the the opamp-stages of the mender, add a transistor in front and place the whole thing between Q2 and the 100n... 

[askwho69]

that would be too much work i've done the PCB already and pots all is working.. but confused where can i insert the mender for better sounding... thanks anyways

[Davelectro]

Tonemender before or after Thor?

If those are your only options I'd say place it after, 'cause it adds noise and you won't like that noise being amplified by the Thor.

[askwho69]

ohhh.. i use tlc2272 w/c is low noise... i've tried it after and before thor but my other concern is how can i make it 1 volume control? is there any idea on it? Thanks for the reply

[azrael]

Replace either one of the level pots with a fixed resistor, of course.

[Mark Hammer]

As Foxx suggests, you can safely omit the unity-gain input buffer of the Tonemender and feed the Tonemender tonestack directly from the output of U1 in the Thor (leave out the volume pot).  That means you can build the whole thing with one dual op-amp, instead of needing a dual and a single.

Given the gain of the Thor, the "Level" control of the Tonemender can probably be replaced with a fixed resistor that results in a bit of recovery gain to compensate for the passive bleed of the tonestack (try 22k-33k).  Replace the 100k fixed resistor on the Tonemender output with a 100k log output level pot, and you're done.

[askwho69]

As Foxx suggests, you can safely omit the unity-gain input buffer of the Tonemender and feed the Tonemender tonestack directly from the output of U1 in the Thor (leave out the volume pot).  That means you can build the whole thing with one dual op-amp, instead of needing a dual and a single.

Given the gain of the Thor, the "Level" control of the Tonemender can probably be replaced with a fixed resistor that results in a bit of recovery gain to compensate for the passive bleed of the tonestack (try 22k-33k).  Replace the 100k fixed resistor on the Tonemender output with a 100k log output level pot, and you're done.

YES! thats more like it AS ALWAYS Mark Hammer thanks so much!

One more question : if i omit the buffer on Tonemender and Thor out put direct to tonestack is this means that the input cap, 10m and 1m should be omit too? how about the output 100n on thor? thanks again

PS thank for the replies all gonna Debug it to be more versatile thormender

[Mark Hammer]

Since the signal MUST pass through a cap on the way to the output stage of the Tonemender, there is no real requirement for the 100nf on the output of the Thor, or the 22nf on the Tonemender input.  The U1 output from the Thor should be directly connectable to the junction of the 220pf cap and 200k fixed resistor in the Tonemender.  Best to wait for additional corroboration of that from other opnions, though, before committing to it.

Incidentally, you have the option of retaining the 100nf/100k pot from the output of the Thor, omitting the previously suggested 100k volume pot on the Tonemender output, and connecting the wiper of the Thor's output pot to the 220pf/200k junction.  That would give you gain->master vol followed by EQ instead of gain -> EQ ->master vol.

Is there any advantage to doing it one way over the other?  Some would say that sticking a master vol at the very end will give the greatest control over minimizing hiss, the logic being that the Tonemender might generate a bit of hiss on its own and if you can't turn that down, you're stuck with it.  On the other hand, some might also say that sticking the volume pot at the end may make the pot more interactive with whatever comes after the unit, since anything less than max volume sticks the resistance on one side of the wiper in series with the output.

AFAIC, 6 of one, half dozen of the other.  I don't expect the Tonemender to produce much hiss at all, so there is not all that much to guard against.

[askwho69]

Since the signal MUST pass through a cap on the way to the output stage of the Tonemender, there is no real requirement for the 100nf on the output of the Thor, or the 22nf on the Tonemender input.  The U1 output from the Thor should be directly connectable to the junction of the 220pf cap and 200k fixed resistor in the Tonemender.  Best to wait for additional corroboration of that from other opnions, though, before committing to it.

Incidentally, you have the option of retaining the 100nf/100k pot from the output of the Thor, omitting the previously suggested 100k volume pot on the Tonemender output, and connecting the wiper of the Thor's output pot to the 220pf/200k junction.  That would give you gain->master vol followed by EQ instead of gain -> EQ ->master vol.

Is there any advantage to doing it one way over the other?  Some would say that sticking a master vol at the very end will give the greatest control over minimizing hiss, the logic being that the Tonemender might generate a bit of hiss on its own and if you can't turn that down, you're stuck with it.  On the other hand, some might also say that sticking the volume pot at the end may make the pot more interactive with whatever comes after the unit, since anything less than max volume sticks the resistance on one side of the wiper in series with the output.



AFAIC, 6 of one, half dozen of the other.  I don't expect the Tonemender to produce much hiss at all, so there is not all that much to guard against.

wow this is what im waiting for a very very very intelligent and informative answer ! Thank you so much MR. MARK HAMMER! thank you so much and i trusted your words Thank you so much again

[MikeH]

Personally, I would go for keeping the master on the tonemender, and using fixed resistors on the Thor to achieve a bit more than unity gain.  I think taking the full output from the tonemender without a master vol will be noisy.  The Thor is already a bit noisy as it is.  Also you want to avoid hitting the tonemender with too much signal from the Thor, otherwise you'll get some nasty opamp breakup.  And not 'nasty' in a good way.

There is also no reason what-so-ever you can't keep both master volumes, 'pre' and 'post' style, like in some hiwatt amps.  Tweak to taste.