ggg fuzz face 60's and octavia in one box power HELP

[tfletchii]

I'm putting a ggg octavia and fuzz face late 60's in one enclosure (using the ggg wiring for 2 in 1) and I'm having problems getting the fuzz face powered up. They have different wiring diagrams for the dc/battery power. The different fuzz face options have different wiring for the dc/battery power. For instance the boutique early 70s one is wired like the octavia. Could I just use this method with the late 60's version? All three are NPN but I'm wondering.  One more question, I don't know how the 9+ power is supposed to get to the board on the late 60's version?

two in one enclosure wiring  -  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/two_in_one_wiring.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

fuzz face late 60's  -  http://generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ff5_lo_b69.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

octavia  -  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_toct_lo_dist_f.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

boutique early 70's  -  http://generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ff5_lo_b70.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Short answer: You can't do it with the Octavia and the 60's Fuzz

The 60's fuzz is a PNP circuit and the Octavia is NPN. Two different power schemes. You wouldn't be able to power BOTH circuits with the same supply.

The 60's Fuzz IS NOT NPN. At least not the one you linked to. The 70's Fuzz IS NPN. So you could put the 70's fuzz in with the Octavia and run the same PS.

The only way to do it (with the 60's fuzz/octavia) would be to build a voltage converter for the Fuzz to output -9VDC. Try madbean's Road rage  

[StereoKills]

The fuzz face 60's version is a positive ground circuit and the octavia is a negative ground circuit. You can't have them share the same power supply.

Edit: Beaten to the punch!

[wavley]

You could use npn trannies in your 60s fuzz and flip the caps around so that it will play nice with other pedals, npn germs are more expensive, but there are some at small bear.

[tfletchii]

that is what i figured and what I was afraid of. I'm embarrassed that i missed this when planning.

Lacky, I'll look into the madbean road rage. Thanks everyone for confirming my concern and helping with the solution

[tfletchii]

wavley, so if i switch the caps I would be good to go with the late 60's and npn trannies? that would be an easy enough fix

[wavley]

wavley, so if i switch the caps I would be good to go with the late 60's and npn trannies? that would be an easy enough fix

Just put everything the same polarity as the 70s fuzz and use npn transistors.

[tfletchii]

I switched the caps and the diode but now my battery is getting shorted at ground. Nothing is working and the battery is getting hot fast. I have the 9v from the pcb going to the 9v+ on the dc jack and the fuzz face board is grounded to the octavia. It is wired like the ggg two pedals in one diagram in my first post.  The ggg 70's fuzz and late 60's have different parts in the circuit but I don't know why that would matter. 

Any ideas? thanks again everyone

[wavley]

I switched the caps and the diode but now my battery is getting shorted at ground. Nothing is working and the battery is getting hot fast. I have the 9v from the pcb going to the 9v+ on the dc jack and the fuzz face board is grounded to the octavia. It is wired like the ggg two pedals in one diagram in my first post.  The ggg 70's fuzz and late 60's have different parts in the circuit but I don't know why that would matter.  

Any ideas? thanks again everyone

You've missed something somewhere, as long as your caps are the same polarity as the npn version of the schematic you should be fine, double check your jack wiring, make sure your caps aren't shorted, and make sure you are using npn transistors now.

edit: are you using a reverse protection diode?  Check and make sure that's facing the right direction too.

[tfletchii]

still no luck,

wavley, I'm not using a reverse protection diode. I only have one diode on the board D3 and I switched its polarity around when switching the caps. I am using NPN transistors. thanks for the continued help.

I'm still working at this but please continue to give me your ideas. Thanks again

I tried hooking a battery up directly to the fuzz face (with caps, diode, and battery polarity flipped) bypassing the input jack and I'm getting no activity from the circuit and the battery is getting hot fast. The only thing the two pedals are sharing at that point was the output.

[tfletchii]

I'm thinking that either R9 might need to be jumped and I might need to change Ma around since it is joined with the 9v pad. any thoughts?

[tiges_ tendres]

If your battery is getting hot, that means you have a short between 9 Volts and ground.

Also, regardless of polarity npn/pnp, the protection diode doesn't change direction.  D3 IS a protection diode, and if you have it turned around, that is why your circuit isn't getting power.

[chromesphere]

If your battery is getting hot, that means you have a short between 9 Volts and ground.

Also, regardless of polarity npn/pnp, the protection diode doesn't change direction.  D3 IS a protection diode, and if you have it turned around, that is why your circuit isn't getting power.

I was looking at the schematics for the madbean sprout (negative ground) which has a diode with the negative pointing at +9v, and the rangemaster (positive ground) and its diode negative is pointing at ground (which is positive).  So you do have to flip it around dont you?  Basically...the negative points at whatever is "positive" (+9v or Positive ground)?
I've just recently been playing around with pos ground circuits so i've found this interesting and could very likely be completely wrong.
Paul

[tfletchii]

tiges, thanks for the heads up on the diode flip. I'll make the change and report back

chromesphere, i'm confused on the issue as well. I was looking at other npn/pnp schematics for the various fuzz pedals on ggg and the D3 diode's polarity follows the electro caps on the npn and pnp circuits.

[tfletchii]

If your battery is getting hot, that means you have a short between 9 Volts and ground.

I think the short is happening between the 9v pad and the Ma pad on the pcb. the two pads are connected so I think i need to make a change to what is hooked up to Ma or jump r9 but I'm not sure what

[Govmnt_Lacky]

chromesphere, i'm confused on the issue as well. I was looking at other npn/pnp schematics for the various fuzz pedals on ggg and the D3 diode's polarity follows the electro caps on the npn and pnp circuits.

I am going to shoot from the hip here so if I am totally wrong... someone please correct me 

When using a diode for polarity protection, you always want to ensure that the diode's CATHODE is facing your "highest" voltage level. In the case of a PNP circuit, this means that the cathode will be facing/connected to 0V. The reason for this is because you are using -9VDC to power the circuit. Since 0V is higher than -9V, the cathose will be connected to the 0V trace.

With an NPN (negative ground) circuit, the voltages you are dealing with are 0V and +9V. In this instance, the diode's cathode (striped end) will be facing +9V.

[tfletchii]

lacky, that layouts on ggg various fuzz faces seems to support your logic

[tiges_ tendres]

Thanks for the heads up, fellas!  You can even omit this diode as long as you are careful with what power supply you use.

9v and M1 need to be connected.  But what do you have connected to the 9v spot on the board?  9v+(Red) or 9v-(Black)?

[tfletchii]

i switched it to 9v+ (red). my understanding was I needed to flip the battery as well as the caps, diode and led.

thanks for the continued help.

should I remove the fuzz face from the dual pedal and hook it up as a pnp and get it working? then flip it to npn and add it to the circuit. I'm trying at the moment with it as its own pedal as npn. I'm beginning to think I've maybe made a mistake elsewhere but i've looked this thing over for a while know and I can't find any mistake.

[tiges_ tendres]

OK.

If your battery is getting hot, it means you have a short.  Check the board for solder bridges.