Designing SMD PCB's

[CodeMonk]

Sometime during this year (2012, and probably near the end of the year), I am going to start designing an SMD layout.
Of this design : http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.0
(My first post on this subject is here :  http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg842381#msg842381 )

While I have done numerous pedal PCB layouts, I have never designed an SMD one.
I have built a great deal of SMD boards.
I worked for NASA years ago where all the PCBs I worked on, by hand, were SMD.

I have used DIYLC (Love it), Eagle (have only done a few PCB's with it), and a few other PCB designing programs whose name I forget ("1,2,3 PCB" or something was one).
Haven't used Eagle that much, but do have plans to do several PCB's in Eagle so I can have the boards made for me. I still have much to learn about Eagle.

But with this new planned project, I am asking the masses here, what would be the best program for designing SMD PCBs?
Something that I could use to outsource the PCB manufacturing with.

And maybe state the pros and cons of your recommended program.



Thanks for any and all suggestions.

[MetalGuy]

Haven't used Eagle that much, but do have plans to do several PCB's in Eagle so I can have the boards made for me. I still have much to learn about Eagle.

One thing I can tell you for your own good. Forget about the crappy Eagle!

[CodeMonk]

Haven't used Eagle that much, but do have plans to do several PCB's in Eagle so I can have the boards made for me. I still have much to learn about Eagle.

One thing I can tell you for your own good. Forget about the crappy Eagle!

Alternatives that can be used for outsourcing my PCB's ?

[Valoosj]

How about diptrace? Not sure if it can be used for outsourcing, but it seems quite professional and it is very user friendly. I went as far as creating my own components with it.

[Ettore_M]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best. It's not the simplest, but when you learn a few things, you are good to go!  And not to forget, there are tons of tutorials in the web, and forums that can be very helpgul! 

Hector

[CodeMonk]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best. It's not the simplest, but when you learn a few things, you are good to go!  And not to forget, there are tons of tutorials in the web, and forums that can be very helpgul! 

Hector

Ok...that's several yes'es for Eagle (I have some friends that love it).
Just need to use it more often. Will likely fiddle with it tonight as I have 14 double-sided PCB layouts I need to do soon.

Thanks

[Ettore_M]

Happy to help! I think you made the right decision!  I pretty much use Eagle all the time to do my PCBs, and never had a problem. I forgot to say: Its good with SMDs, too. I've done one or two hybrid layouts (opamp=SMD. Others= regular).

[G. Hoffman]

KiCAD.  It's open source, quite mature (i.e., not buggy), and easy to use once you get used to the interface.  There are a couple of quirks, but it doesn't feel at all like a "free" program.  The quirks are just places where it does things differently than you expect, but once you understand the work flow, they make a lot of sense.  Go through any of the tutorials, and you'll be doing fine.  AND, unlike the cheap and free versions of Eagle, there is no limitation to the size of the board, or the number of layers you can use.  Works great with SMD parts too, in my experience.

The only problem I have with it is that it has a very different interface than the CAD program I use for everything else (an old version of Vectorworks), and I haven't taken the time to go through and change all the hot keys on one or the other so they match, which means when I switch back and forth, I sometimes get a little confused, but both have key remapping, so it isn't so much a problem with the program as a problem with me being lazy.


Gabriel

[Gordo]

What are you guys using for parts libraries?

[CodeMonk]

What are you guys using for parts libraries?

Here :
http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/tools/software/eagle/eagle-2-libraries/

[The Tone God]

Eagle is not perfect by far but no PCB software really is IMHO. Despite its low cost Eagle is used by lower/smaller end manufactures just fine.

I use KiCAD and am happy with it. It has definitely gotten better through out the years unlike some other products. There is a decent set of libraries including SMD parts and it not that hard to make new parts especially with the part datasheets which have all the part size specs. And since it sounds like you are going to sell these parts you don't need to buy a license like you would with Eagle.

Andrew

[CodeMonk]

Eagle is not perfect by far but no PCB software really is IMHO. Despite its low cost Eagle is used by lower/smaller end manufactures just fine.

I use KiCAD and am happy with it. It has definitely gotten better through out the years unlike some other products. There is a decent set of libraries including SMD parts and it not that hard to make new parts especially with the part datasheets which have all the part size specs. And since it sounds like you are going to sell these parts you don't need to buy a license like you would with Eagle.

Andrew

My plans are to sell them yes. At least the PCB.
And I plan on using it as part of a pedal I am designing, for sale.
As long as slacker has no objections to it that is (I've already PM'ed him about my plans).
If he poo-poo's it, then I will just make a few for me and maybe a few for my friends.
I would be disappointed if he says no, but not devastated. Que Sera, Sera.
PCB design is my favorite part of pedal building, by a HUGE, HUGE margin. More than building it. Even more than actually playing on it.
I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, enjoy designing pedal PCBs.

I will also make the layout files available to anyone here that asks, free (Credit given to slacker and myself would be appreciated).

[Ice-9]

I would give "Diptrace" a try, I have designed many SMD pcb's using this, Its free and has libraries and is easy to use.

www.diptrace.com

[Cliff Schecht]

I've used Eagle both personally and professionally since 5.0 came out. While there is a learning curve, once you get past this it is very simple and intuitive piece of software to use. I can usually draw a schematic and have a small board laid out in under an hour if not quicker for uber-simple boards. The trick is learning how to use all of the commands and setting up hotkeys for everything that you use often. The other trick (if you are having boards manufactured) is to download the Sunstone DRC rules and check your boards with these. I've never had a board pass this set of DRC rules and fail to be manufacturable.

[G. Hoffman]

Eagle is not perfect by far but no PCB software really is IMHO. Despite its low cost Eagle is used by lower/smaller end manufactures just fine.

I use KiCAD and am happy with it. It has definitely gotten better through out the years unlike some other products. There is a decent set of libraries including SMD parts and it not that hard to make new parts especially with the part datasheets which have all the part size specs. And since it sounds like you are going to sell these parts you don't need to buy a license like you would with Eagle.

Andrew

Also, any Eagle library can be converted to a KiCAD library.  I don't remember the site, but there is a converter out there somewhere.


Gabriel

[MetalGuy]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best.

Best software? Give me a break! That can't happen even in your dreams.
Obviously it's love it or hate it kind of thing but if you're new at PCB design I would strongly recommend against it.

[MoltenVoltage]

Eagle is not perfect by far but no PCB software really is IMHO. Despite its low cost Eagle is used by lower/smaller end manufactures just fine.

I use KiCAD and am happy with it. It has definitely gotten better through out the years unlike some other products. There is a decent set of libraries including SMD parts and it not that hard to make new parts especially with the part datasheets which have all the part size specs. And since it sounds like you are going to sell these parts you don't need to buy a license like you would with Eagle.

Andrew

You can get a basic Eagle license for the lite version for about $70 USD which is a bargain.

There are lots of parts libraries floating around but it is easy to make your own once you get the hang of it.  Count on about a 2 day learning curve, then you are off and running.

[Ettore_M]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best.

Best software? Give me a break! That can't happen even in your dreams.
Obviously it's love it or hate it kind of thing but if you're new at PCB design I would strongly recommend against it.

Please. Take a break if you want to.. Did I say "Best software "?? I said "maybe the best". Still, it's my opinion. And you disagree. It's your opinion. I can't say anything about it. However, I agree that it's a little difficult at the beginning. So is every software you use for the first time. Also, I agree with MV. If you want to use it professionaly, it's really a bargain to buy the authentic one. Sure, it's a love-it or hate-it, so you have to try them all, and then decide which one you like the most.

[Gurner]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best.

Best software? Give me a break! That can't happen even in your dreams.
Obviously it's love it or hate it kind of thing but if you're new at PCB design I would strongly recommend against it.

I think we'd need to define best.

Easiest to learn? no way.
Intuitive? not particularly.
Has it all bases covered? pretty much.

therefore 'best 'to me is PCB design software where I'm not hampered by limitations of the software....and that's where Eagle shines. For example, diptrace looked good....but then I needed a plugin to automatically output the XY coords for SMD pad centres (for a CNC paste dispenser) - diptrace? forget it! Eagle on the other hand, it took me about 5 mins to change an existing  plugin that was very close.

So like I say, you need to define 'best' for you own requirements.

[Fuzz Aldryn]

Abacom Sprint Layout. No schematic connection (just a crude simple on). But when it comes to physically designing your pcb and simplicity in how to use and understand it is my opinion the best software you can get for designing simple circuits like most guitar effects are.