Designing SMD PCB's

[CodeMonk]

I think that Eagle is your best chance. Everybody's using it, not only because you can outsource your PCBs, but because it is a good program. Maybe the best.

Best software? Give me a break! That can't happen even in your dreams.
Obviously it's love it or hate it kind of thing but if you're new at PCB design I would strongly recommend against it.

I've been designing my own PCB for a few years now, and have played around with Eagle.

I'll try to get to Eagle today as well as some of the others suggested here.
If I am going to be using the software to make money, I have no problems paying a license fee.
I think that's fair to the designer of the software.
I used to write shareware programs so I may have a different opinion on that than some people do.

Thanks to all for the suggestions.

[MetalGuy]

Abacom Sprint Layout. No schematic connection (just a crude simple on). But when it comes to physically designing your pcb and simplicity in how to use and understand it is my opinion the best software you can get for designing simple circuits like most guitar effects are.

+1. This is maybe the most intuitive and idiot proof software I've seen so far. Fully capable, outputs all necessary files for production, perfect for effects and similar DIY.
One interesting feature is you can import a picture into the work field, scale it and start drawing the PCB.
Using software like Eagle or Altium designer for guitar effects and stuff is like killing a fly with a canon. And don't be mislead - the autorouter won't do the job.

[chromesphere]

Total PCB layout noob here.

I tried eagle, and was stumped by the interface.  Couldnt even get started...in all honesty, i probably should have stuck with it for longer, but i installed diptrace at the same time and found it easier to get going.  i wouldnt say Diptrace is easier to use though!   It's got some quirks that take a bit of getting used to.

I've designed about 5 layouts now, and I'm getting better at it and my layouts are looking more 'pro'.  These are simple effects though.  20 components, 1 IC, tops.  Buffer in a 1590a. etc etc

Whenever something "outside the box" comes up, i usually have to search around for the answer, but often find there is a feature that has what i'm trying to do covered. I must say, I'm getting a hell of a lot of enjoyment designing my own projects! It's a new level of DIY statisfaction for me!

Not related to SMD as the topic says, but thought it was somewhat relevant.

All the best,
Paul

[CodeMonk]

Total PCB layout noob here.

I tried eagle, and was stumped by the interface.  Couldnt even get started...in all honesty, i probably should have stuck with it for longer, but i installed diptrace at the same time and found it easier to get going.  i wouldnt say Diptrace is easier to use though!   It's got some quirks that take a bit of getting used to.

I've designed about 5 layouts now, and I'm getting better at it and my layouts are looking more 'pro'.  These are simple effects though.  20 components, 1 IC, tops.  Buffer in a 1590a. etc etc

Whenever something "outside the box" comes up, i usually have to search around for the answer, but often find there is a feature that has what i'm trying to do covered. I must say, I'm getting a hell of a lot of enjoyment designing my own projects! It's a new level of DIY statisfaction for me!

Not related to SMD as the topic says, but thought it was somewhat relevant.

All the best,
Paul

But its a vote of confidence for Diptrace.
That makes it relevant, to me anyway

Thanks

[Cliff Schecht]

Like anything that's worthwhile layout takes practice before you become proficient. It's as much of an art as it is a science really and I always appreciate it when somebody takes pride in their layouts. On the flip side I can tell when somebody either doesn't know what they are doing or doesn't take very much pride in doing neat work. Working neatly/efficiently was forced into me as a child, undoubtedly a side-effect of having a EE for a dad.

It took me a quite a few boards and a lot of etching/building to get to where I felt competent taking on any project. Go outside of audio/guitar circuits too. Learning to layout tube amps these past few years has helped me further understand how to handle large return current paths as well as being quick at tracing out circuits visually. Doing RF layouts (both PCB and IC level) has made me delve much further into how parasitics can play into circuit performance. Medical stuff has taught me how to build a low noise power supply and how much or little bypass capacitance is needed to achieve a certain noise performance. There's a lot of fun stuff to play with outside of audio circuits that can really help you further understand the audio circuits you already enjoy so much. This forum is a great resource for anybody learning layouts and such, we've got some very talented engineers (as well as talented hobbyists) who enjoy spending their time helping others learn. I usually try to hop in on Eagle related questions if I know the answer and have the time to respond.

I've got a pretty good system I use in Eagle that has consistently produced working boards (given the schematic is correct). Eagle's parts building system is the simplest and most intuitive tool I've used to build components, something that can be very tedious and time consuming with a bad software package. Most simple effects pedals take about an hour to go from a blank schematic to a finished board in Eagle once you get good with it and understand their tools. They definitely don't make their program feel like most Windows applications but learning how to bind hotkeys and reading the help files will get most moving forward pretty quickly. Pretty much anything you'd usually have to go find in a menu can be bound to a hotkey and/or scripted in Eagle. This makes it powerful in a lot of ways that other software packages aren't, especially when it comes to automation. They have some scripts out now that I find invaluable. One is a script that zooms into unrouted traces. Using just this and DRC I can pretty much guarantee a board will be electrically sound, or to put this another way I've never had a board pass both of these tests and come back from a manufacturer as defective (and I've done a LOT of manufacturing with Eagle).




Something I can recommend for anybody learning layout is to work on a grid. Learn how the grid systems work (they are simple) and keep your parts on grid. For most boards I use a 0.1" grid to start my layouts and get everything somewhat organized. Then if I'm trying to make a compact board I'll drop the grid down to 0.05" or 0.025" and pack everything in. Also a neat trick in Eagle is the Alt grid. You can set a standard grid of 0.1" and the alt grid for something like 0.025". When you are doing normal moving or routing everything will be on the 0.1" grid but if you hold down alt while in move/route (or anything that relies on a grid) then you change the grid to 0.025" or whatever the alt grid is set to.

[Earthscum]

Not that I've had, or (realistically) going to have boards manufactured, but I wish there were a way to convert vector files to the necessary files needed. I've worked with so many different processes, I honestly don't quite get what all the files are needed for, other than so they can dump and go.

You can put out a ton of different formats from Illustrator or Inkscape. I was running conversions to .plt files (and others) for the engraving machines, no problem. Well... ok, lots of problems that I wouldn't have had if I was still running Win98, but...

What kind of files does a PCB manufacturer require, and what part does it play in the process? I know how manufacturing runs... been doing it for quite a few years now, and most of the "standards" are a way to make the customer do work the manufacturer still charges them for. I'm just curious if this is the case or not in the PCB houses. I understand stuff like what Cliff works on needs precision. That makes sense to have precision, etc. when you get into having to consider the board as an active component (etched antenna arrays come to mind).

It's frustrating to someone like me who does graphic art (not just the art... whole process, because making the sign is 10 times more fun than designing it). But, I guess it's similar to how we wouldn't use CorelDraw files (newer versions, 10 and up, actually handle bezier curves, the main reason it was considered such a sub-standard, comparable only to PrintShop).

[.Mike]

Not that I've had, or (realistically) going to have boards manufactured, but I wish there were a way to convert vector files to the necessary files needed. I've worked with so many different processes, I honestly don't quite get what all the files are needed for, other than so they can dump and go.

It's definitely possible. For example, have a look here: http://swannman.github.com/pdf2gerb/

There are other methods as well. Some are covered in this topic, found at a site that is eerily similar to DIYSB, but much more... festive.

Mike

[MetalGuy]

I tried eagle, and was stumped by the interface.  Couldnt even get started...

That's what I'm talking about. It's not "bad" software per se but 100% the worst choice for beginners.

What kind of files does a PCB manufacturer require, and what part does it play in the process?

The manufacturer will usually request your PCB file and output for themselves whatever they need. Otherwise they will need gerber and excellon files.