f*^$%$%!!!! bassballs...

[Govmnt_Lacky]

ic 1
1  9.14
2  9.13
3  1.74
4  0.00
5  0.00
6  8.19
7  9.18
8  9.77

Something definitely not kosher here!!

High voltages on Pins 1, 2, 6, and 7. Low voltage on Pin 3. Nothing on Pin 5.

Not the usual Vref on 1-3 and 5-7  

Maybe a DOA LM1458?

Or some serious solder bridgin' going on   

[pinkjimiphoton]

ic 1
1  9.14
2  9.13
3  1.74
4  0.00
5  0.00
6  8.19
7  9.18
8  9.77

Something definitely not kosher here!!

High voltages on Pins 1, 2, 6, and 7. Low voltage on Pin 3. Nothing on Pin 5.

Not the usual Vref on 1-3 and 5-7  

Maybe a DOA LM1458?

Or some serious solder bridgin' going on   

hi greg,
you've gotta look at the circuit..it's set up really weird...

pins 1 and 2 are tied together...that's the - in and output.. input is to pin 3, pin 4 (v-) is grounded, as is pin 5 (+ in)  -in pin 6 is tied to the second output, pin 7 via 220k, and pin 8 is b+.

what i don't get is how come pins 1, 2, are reading 9v when they SHOULD be reading about half of that, i need to take a break, NOT drink any more coffee and take a look with a fresh set of eyes. i believe the voltage being so high is why the circuit's not working.

i bet it's something really, really, TRAGICALLY stupid, knowing me.

i mean...the voltage divider of r21 and r22 should split the voltage down to about 4.5 v, right?  i'll be back...   

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I agree Jimi!

Only things I can think of from the top of my head is either a bad volatge divider circuit -OR- a solder bridge around Pins 1 and 8 of the LM1458.

You'll get there bro!

Good Luck  

EDIT: Bad Q1.... Reversed D1 

[Ronan]

>"what i don't get is how come pins 1, 2, are reading 9v when they SHOULD be reading about half of that,"

yeah that's weird. Problem number one - pin 3 *should* have 4.5V on it, and pins 1 and 2 *should* have whatever is on pin 3 (i.e. 4.5V DC with no signal).

[pinkjimiphoton]

ii told you guys i'm an idiot, right?   

for all my anal retentive posturing, i screwed all kindsa stuff up. 

of the 4 1458's, i blew one up...the others, i assume are ok, as they all produce the same voltage readings. i had the voltage divider soldered in the wrong tracks (the half voltage, vb? i think?)
fixed that.

lifted a trace, had to add a jumper and re-arrange the pot's wiring a little, and add a trace cut.

realized i was wiring the damn switch wrong. s1 2 is the center, somehow i had THAT wrong, too.

i had c4 connected between a 14 and C 14 instead of B14...so much for checking stuff over, huh???

and more...a couple bridges i hadn't noticed, a couple spots where detritus was between rails. somehow i figure i'll find more. 

ok...ALL that stuff's "right"...morning will tell.

the "b" side of the circuit is working...

but i can't get the second side of ic 1 to work. if i touch my meter's lead to pin 3, i can hear a slight amount of sound. the other side? nothing...on all three "good" chips.

i can do the old "jack darr" buzz  test right up to the side of r10 that connects to c6...but can't get anything THRU c6 or earlier in the circuit!!!

i've been replacing each component one at a time and re-checking..can't get signal until after c6. really weird, as, there's really nothing in there to go wrong other than the chip?

but if the chip were bad, wouldn't it show up in the voltages?

the voltages look alot better now (as they should minus all the dumb newb mistakes i can't believe i made...i mean, i've built way more complicated stuff than this thing successfully, wtf?!?!?)

anyways... here's what i'm reading now, then i'm going to bed...it's been a long day, i started this at 10 am, it's now 1:22 am the next day.

1  4.93
2  4.93
3  4.81
4  0.00
5  0.00
6  8.13
7  9.11
8  9.77

1  4.89
2  4.90
3  4.89
4  0.00
5  4.89
6  4.90
7  4.82
8  9.77

C  9.77
B  9.00
E  8.36

C  0.00
B  .41-.65
E  0.00

C  0.00
B  .41-.65
E  0.00

and, since i thought to measure this too, the diode...i put in a 1n34a (my last one) as i'm out of 4148/914's. 

anode side 9.11
cathode side 9.00

could this bloody diode be what's killing it? 

sort of like the initial problem, except for this time it doesn't pass audio thru at all...switch and pot don't do squat (cuz i can't get anything thru

subbed caps for the tants of the values listed with normal ones cuz i didn't have the tants, but mark said that shouldn't matter.

stumped...it's gonna be something stupid, i know it...thanks for taking this ride with me gents, i am learning a lot as i go, and i thank you all.

i'm off to dream about this m*&^%^&in' circuit all nite long... 

[pinkjimiphoton]

fwiw, this is the modification i had to make...and all the jumps are on the TRACE side instead of the component side. not sure i'll do THAT again!!



the white spots at k1 and 2 are where i lifted the rail by accident. i jumpered the other side to rail c hole 2, added a cut at rail c hole 3, and put p3 to c 1.

seemed the easiest way to do it...

that said...g'nite!!

[Ronan]

Next time I send you a pcb jimi, remind me to throw in a quick and dirty oscillator pcb (circuit by RG Keen). Got a few sitting around collecting dust.

There seems to be a problem around the 2 trimpots, in both vero's it looks like R13 and R18 are connected together, the trimpots wipers are joined together, there should be a break between them, I can't see one.

[pinkjimiphoton]

good eye, ian. you're right. one more issue with this vero... both trimmers work independently connected like that, believe it or not.

i'm gonna cut the track and see if it makes a difference...hey, in for a dollar, in for a dime.

i mean, seems like everything else is "right"...but i'm learning "right" is "relative".


gonna go mess with it some more....abandon all hope, ye who enters here...

[pinkjimiphoton]

I agree Jimi!

Only things I can think of from the top of my head is either a bad volatge divider circuit -OR- a solder bridge around Pins 1 and 8 of the LM1458.

You'll get there bro!

Good Luck  

EDIT: Bad Q1.... Reversed D1 

hmmmmmm reversed diode could explain it? especially with a leaky germanium one maybe?  i can't tell on this freaking thing which end is which, there's a red band and a green one. go figure.

since i tried every other dumb thing i can think of, i'll try pulling the diode and put a bat 41 (i just got some of them, i like saying that, BAT 41,...lol) in and see what happens.

cuz the whole right side of ic 1, pins 5-8, tho connected, and getting reasonable voltages, doesn't seem to do squat, and there's like, nothing there!!!!!!

ayyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi....

[petey twofinger]

+1 on the Q and D , i built one thinking it would come in handy , does it ever !

i originally had it running off an adapter but i put a battery in it cause i use it all the time .

i was thinking of installing a jack that leads to the switch , so i could plug in a set of leads and use it as a quick continuity tester but , i would need a built in speaker and amp at that point .

i used a pc data (printer share) switch chassis for mine . those are always about 2 bux at resale shops and the chassis is perfect .

good luck jimi !

[pinkjimiphoton]

man! this thing is beginning to grind my gears in a bad way....

i have to conquer this sum beach now. checked over stuff again, and again. voltages all roughly the same as last time.


changed the diode to bat41, wrong polarity? no sound.. put it with the band (cathode) pointing at the 100r resistor.

i've socketed the diode so i can mess with it when i get this freaking thing working.

since the bottom half of the circuit is working, i'm gonna focus on the top...the only thing i haven't replaced (lately) is the 5088 which i'm sure is bad.

it should be, by now...<guessing?>

socketing that too. SOMETHING is breaking the damn signal flow . it has to be something stupid.

gonna give up on this soon i think.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ok...built an audio probe. i have signal from input to the 220k resistor between the -in and out (pins 6 and 7) of the 58.  after that, DEAD..and i can't find anything.

i swapped out ic1 with other opamps, same deal..dead right there. it has to be something on that rail thats shorting, but there's virtualy nothing there.

crazy. making ME crazy.

i can't let this f(^%^r get the best of me!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

screw it . 4 days in, i'm done.

nothing makes sense. there's a big area of the board that's just plain DEAD.

i beeped everything for continuity. changed all the components...hell, redid the whole dang vero!!!

used my audio probe, both from the input towards the output, and backwards...effect plugged into amp normally, and audio probing from the output and working back thru the circuit.

it dies somewhere in the couple components between the two chips. the depth pot works as a volume pot irregardless of switch position...so i'm thinking the chips are fried.

i tried different diodes and 5088's, went thru 4 1458's, and tried tl072,82, 4558's, every dang opamp i had. no dice.

this thing has officially beat me down. i put away all my stuff. i need a break for a few days to clear my head.

i learned a lot i think. one thing?

step away from the iron.

NEVER use lead free solder (which i'm thinking is what f'd me up ...i ran out of solder half way thru populating the board, and the new stuff plain sucks monkey balls)

i also need to replace my iron, which appears to have finally crapped out. joy.

so...finally...i am beat. i admit defeat....for now...lol.

thanks to all who tried to help.

peace!!

[iq01221]

Are U really givin'it up? Did you tryed with lm358?

[pinkjimiphoton]

don't have any of them. yes, at this moment, i am giving up. there's better stuff i can do than bang my head against this project.

sorry mate. i'm done...for now.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ALL YOUR BASSBALLS ARE BELONG TO US.....

i kicked it's ass. and won. i don't know exactly what went wrong, or exactly where...but it's working. used the NTE equivalent of the lm358 and a tlo82.

near as i can tell, all the other chips i tried roasted....as did the 5088's. it really pissed me off.

i got some desoldering wick, and removed all that godawful no lead solder, which i blame for everything. 

soldered everything up again with good 60/40, and first shot it worked. done deal. one of the filters isn't adjusting right, so i may have to re-connect the trace between the wipers of the two trimmers, before i had cut that, both worked.

but...it is working now, the only thing i can figure is my 25 watt pencil wasn't hot enough to make a good joint with that lead free crap (indeed, my iron crapped out and i had to buy another after using that crap.) so i'm thinking it got whacked from multiple bad solder joints, not the layout, or my assembly.

interestingly, NONE of the 1458's, 4558's, tl072's etc i have work in the circuit. i'm gonna try 'em in some other stuff i know works, i hate to throw all the chips away, but i think most are useless, and i have no idea how to test them...compare resistances between sides /ins/outs?

anyways...thanks to all who checked this thread and offered supports in so many ways. i done kicked it's ass, thanks to all you guys.

watch for stupid pedal tricks to come.

[Greenmachine]

That's great man.  Way to persevere.  What a great feeling when you get it working eh?

[pinkjimiphoton]

oh yah. and it kinda made me feel better to realize the problem was more the solder than components.

i guess if you're gonna use that stuff you've gotta use a 40 or 100 watt iron and be on and off in a flash.

tweaking it in now, gonna box it up soon...

oh yeah, and the wipers of the two trimmers ARE supposed to be connected, if it's relevant for the future.

learned some things.

leave enough component leads sticking out of the solder joints so you can adjust stuff if need be

NEVER USE THAT CRAPPY LEAD FREE SOLDER

make an audio probe! i used mine both ways...both plugged into my amp to trace thru the input on into the circuit, but also plugged into the output of a noisemaker (i listened to roger waters wall live in australia on my computer) so i could work backwards from the output jack towards the center of the circuit. that's how i found the whole center of the circuit to be pretty much dead, and how far in or out i guess you'd call it the circuit interuptus began.

don't draw beads of solder out on vero so the whole rail is tinned. it may look nice, but it makes debugging hell.

you WILL make mistakes, and OBVIOUS ones, and OFTEN. call it pink's law of electronic fuzzulation. sh&^ happens.

don't give up.

test continuity EVERYWHERE. check voltages before  you install sensitive parts..see if the voltages are in the ballpark, understanding it will be weird with no load.

i don't care if the wire wiggled off the stupid output jack, UNPLUG THE POWER SUPPLY BEFORE YOU SOLDER IT. EVEN IF IT'S SUPER QUICK, YOU'RE LIKELY TO ROAST SOMETHING...
don't ask me how i know this .   

better standy-uppy resistors than forcing them to lie flat so the leads are under extreme stress.

always socket the dang diodes, chips, and trans. ALWAYS. what works great for sockets are the 6 pin ic ones if you can find 'em. they're thicker and studlier than sip sockets, and have better grip. just cut 'em in half, and trim 'em down.  also good for diodes if you're gonna be within 3 holes.. you can heat up the unwanted pin with your iron and push it thru and have a nice solid diode socket.

if something is microphonic, it's transducing, which means it's vibrating...vibrating parts = cold solder. if you come across a cap that pings like a bad tube on an amp when ya tap it, try and touch up it's solder joints. if it doesn't work, chuck it. replace.

desoldering braid is MUCH easier than it sounds, and tho not as cool as a solder sucker works way better

don't be afraid to replace any part, at any time...sometimes cheap parts fail.

practice good mojp. walk away when it beats ya down. have a smoke and a cuppa. do a shot. throw it at the wall.

but then go back in a couple days, with some spare parts and a fresh attitude...

and conquer that son of a beach.  rock on, brothers of the solderhand cult...lol

[Tony Forestiere]

YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!

Congrats. Let me know how your "other" project works out. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks tony!!

dave wiener hooked me up with the board for the mxr flanger 117...thanks to both of you...i will be starting soon. i have a couple things still ahead of it. gotta gather a few odds and sodds.



but this thing's ass is kicked.