Seeking Suggestions for Queens of the Stone Age Sound from a Fuzz Face

[dmforte]

I'm looking for a wide soft fuzz sound that Josh Homme has in QOTSA:
Example 1-

Example 2-

.

I have a solid working fuzz face made on this schematic http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ff5_sc_npn.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a
It currently has no modifications and uses PN2369As for Q1 and Q2. The sound it produces currently is on the harsh side, not bad, but not to my taste.

My goal is to soften up the distortion with the end goal of something resembling the fuzz heard in QOTSA tracks. I am looking for any suggestions people might have to this end. For right now I would like to stick with silicon in the transistor department. I have a small pile of 2N3904s, 2N3903s, 2N2222, and 2N2222As and any number of caps, resistors, and pots and am trying to make something happen with just what is in the larder. Any suggestions are appreciated!

[scott_v]

Aren't QOTSA known for using Big Muffs?  I'm not terribly familiar from there sound but a Big Muff is typically on the darker and smoother side of the fuzz scale than a fuzz face but has higher gain capability.  But you are looking for a softer distortion?  It won't be easy with silicone fuzz face as Si transistors are typically higher gain (Hfe) than Germanium types, but there are way(s) around (ie using limiting resistors on the Emitters on Q1 & Q2 to ground).  I've not personally done this myself with the fuzz face circuit but definitely others have, and its been posted on other topics here you may find out alot with soem searching.  If you want a darker tone from a fuzz face, I'm assuming more bass or more filtering of the treble, I would play around with the input cap and output cap values, the input cap is somewhat large already on a standard fuzz face which is why they can be known to be "muddy" and "boomy" sounding, which i've found to be the case this is very dependant upon the amp and guitar you are usign too... is your guitar single coils or humbuckers?

[Paul Marossy]

Check out this article about modding a Big Muff Pi: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/May/Electro_Harmonix_Russian_Big_Muff_Pi_Pedal_Mods.aspx

It says that it "This will make it nice, big and full—something closer to a Queens of the Stone Age type of tone".

[dmforte]

Thank you to both of you, I've been looking at the Pi, that is a future build I plan and I feel like it will hit the nail on the head to some extent. In the mean time,

My guitar has single coil pickups, I'm not entirely sure in what direction that pushes things. I will look into your suggestions regarding the caps, I was thinking of putting in sockets for the caps so I could work that angle more easily.

Additionally, I'd heard that diodes can be used to effectively lower the gain of a transistor, yet it was unclear in the threads I've found how to do this. I assume that the diode is placed to stop voltage flow through the transistor to approximate a more ideal transistor?

[Paul Marossy]

Thank you to both of you, I've been looking at the Pi, that is a future build I plan and I feel like it will hit the nail on the head to some extent. In the mean time,

My guitar has single coil pickups, I'm not entirely sure in what direction that pushes things.

I don't think you're going to get that kind of gain out of a Fuzz Face, especially with single coils that have a relatively weak output. The Big Muff Pi has three gain stages plus a tone control that allows for quite a bit of variation in the sound.

Anyway, to get a more articulated sound out of a Fuzz Face, I would probably be inclined to mess with the input and output cap values. Maybe a 1uF on the input and a .047uF or a 0.1uF output cap.

Additionally, I'd heard that diodes can be used to effectively lower the gain of a transistor, yet it was unclear in the threads I've found how to do this. I assume that the diode is placed to stop voltage flow through the transistor to approximate a more ideal transistor?

You can put diodes in series with the base of the transistor ala Joe Davisson's "Vulcan". I've never tried it but it's an interesting idea.

[electrosonic]

Don't they tune down a major third (to C#)?
What amps do they use?

I was going to bring "Go with the Flow" to my band night. Great song.

Andrew.

[fakcior]

Josh uses Ampeg bass amplifiers. His sound is basically a Fulltone Ultimate Octave (check out for mids cap mod) into cranked Ampeg VT-22 / V-4
More info: http://www.effectsbay.com/2010/06/josh-hommes-pedalboard-them-crooked-vultures/

[Paul Marossy]

Josh uses Ampeg bass amplifiers. His sound is basically a Fulltone Ultimate Octave (check out for mids cap mod) into cranked Ampeg VT-22 / V-4
More info: http://www.effectsbay.com/2010/06/josh-hommes-pedalboard-them-crooked-vultures/

Is this the same setup as when he was in T.Q.O.T.S.A.? Sounds like it may have changed some, but I'm certainly no expert on the subject...

[Dingus]

Is this the same setup as when he was in T.Q.O.T.S.A.? Sounds like it may have changed some, but I'm certainly no expert on the subject...

Hi Paul,

           It depends when in QOTSA we're talking about. I know he did around the Lullabys album (probably after that too, but I stopped paying attention). I know I've also read he used a Foxx Tone Machine for the Songs for the Deaf album. So really I think dmforte is looking for an octave fuzz. There's also a lot of talk out there about how the Maestro MPF-1 (Parametric Filter) is integral to his tone. I've never heard one myself to see what it really sounds like.


Cheers!

[dmforte]

Paul Marossy - thank you for the suggestions, I'll try around those values and report back on what happens. I also think I'll see what happens with utilizing a diode, it can only go so wrong.

electrosonic - They certainly do use C and C# tunings, which make everything sound delightful.

[LaceSensor]

You really need the Stone Deaf FX PDF-1 parametric distortion filter
Its a modern working of the maestro pedal and Josh Homme uses them now rather than his flaky vintage units.
essential for this kinda sound imho

[dmforte]

An update - I put a diode in series with the Q1 base lead of a 2N3904 and compared it to an unmodified 2N3904, some difference, but not much. However, looking around it seems to be that the voltage gain of a transistor is really only effected by the input current (into the collector) and the inherent resistance of the transistor (including any resistance between the emitter and ground) [1]. I haven't had a chance to try it, but I think a bigger difference can be effected by putting the diode in series with the collector lead. I'll post if this helps.

[1] http://users.tpg.com.au/users/ldbutler/TransisVoltAmp.htm

[Kesh]

It currently has no modifications and uses PN2369As for Q1 and Q2. The sound it produces currently is on the harsh side, not bad, but not to my taste.

Is that the same as a 2n2369? I made a very smooth fuzz face with that as Q1, selected a hfe of about 65 for it.

I also put 470pf across Q2, which was a 2n3705 with hfe 120.

Biasing on the collector of Q2 between 4.5V and 7.5V, upping the resistor of Q1's collector, and changing the input cap, all made very noticeable differences.