Hello fellow forumites!
A friend of mine brought around some of his commercial pedals on the weekend. One thing i noticed immediately was how ALL of the knobs on them were flush with the enclosure. I always end up with a gap of 3+ mm between the base of the knob and the top of the enclosure. The commercial pedal knobs had very little gap, and it just occured to me how much better it looked.
So the question is, how can you remove a small amount from the top of the potentiometer? I'd have to experiment, but i reckon 3-4mm. Or should i just take off more, say, half a centermeter or even more, and just make sure theres enough for the grub screw to hit?
Do any of you guys do this extra step?
Cheers,
Paul
I do. I like them flush, so I trim the tops of the shafts with a Dremel, when required.
hi paul, i always cut my shafts (solid) to fit my knobs onto..i'm not a fan of split shafts. (though i picked up a good tip for those, use the snapped off lug and put it in the split, voila' no squeeze) ;)...anyway...
you could always add another nut/s to the pot underneath too...just to test.
Look up "jeweler's saw" or "Zona saw".
You can just file it down for up to 1mm or so, or use a fine-toothed junior hacksaw to take more off. Whatever you do make absolutely sure that no little shards of metal get inside the pot body - they get stuck in the grease inside and then wear the track out in a heartbeat.
If the knob is deep enough, you can use a 6.35mm drill (1/4") to make the recess deeper...
Or buy taller knobs - that's what I ended up doing. Saves a lot of hassle.
Drives me crazy when i see floating knobs. Small Bear pots have shafts length appropriately so it's unnecessary to take the extra step. When it is necessary, because i've sourced the pots elsewhere i use a hacksaw or Dremel with a cutoff wheel. Best to grip the excess bit in the vise to do the surgery. Wrap some tape around the lower part of the shaft and the pot body to prevent stray bits going where they shouldn't be.
Sometimes only takes i bit of filing to get where i need or it could be a long bushing requiring a lower mounting of the pot.
dave
why get all fancy with saws and stuff when a good blow with a hand sledge ( no larger than 4 lb tho) will do the trick.
Use a lock washer between the pot and enclosure (inside).
Depending on the knobs you can also drill them out to
take up some space.
I drill out knobs all the time to get the
them closer to flush. A pain but I cant stand it otherwise.
Set the drill stop on your drill press once you get the depth set. :icon_wink:
Lock washers, dremels, all good ideas thanks! I usually use a hacksaw, but the small amount to trim might make it a pita. I'll mess around with it this afternoon. Its funny, i've built 100+ pedals, and its ALWAYS bothered me. Then i noticed the commercial pedals and thought, "thats it! I've had enough!" lol
Paul
I used to use a hacksaw. Once I got a Dremel, I was suddenly a lot more compelled to trim my pot shafts.
Another way to take a little off the end of the shaft if you don't have a Dremel is to turn the pot upside down, hold or support the shaft with some pliers (or your fingers if you can), and rub the flat end across a flat file or some 60-80 grit sandpaper. I often do this anyway after cutting the end with a Dremel.
Using washers as spacers on the inside as John L. mentioned is the quickest and easiest way.
Speaking of stick-ups, I also hate to see a bunch of threads on a switch or jack hanging out of the box. Sometimes it's unavoidable due to space constraints on the inside of the enclosure. I usually use an extra nut on the inside to adjust adjust them.
with these, you have no choice but to put it in a vise and saw...then file...a bit pricey too , but i do prefer the feel of these,than most others ive tried, more 'resistance' (ok bad pun) when turning.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/miniature-potentiometers-2203
Has anyone tried recessing the knob? My plan is to drill holes the size of the knobs then attach a plate of aluminium behind, drilling your normal pot holes in that.
^ probably not due to space for the pcb, ...but i get the idea, like a ross distortion flushness etc...
When I saw the thread title I got an image of a knob that had it's top flush with the enclosure. That would require some texture on the top of the knob and a pot that's not too hard to turn, but you'd never destroy that pot with careless stomping ;D
When *I* saw the title, I thought Paul was advocating universal disposal of all knobs via the sanitary facilities.... :icon_lol:
I'm a big fan of jigs and templates generally, so I'd suggest once you know how long the shaft needs to be to suit the enclosures and knobs in use, that you drill a suitable close-fitting hole (maybe even a stepped hole such the bush of the pot also enters, (and a small hole for the lug) so that the body sits flat) in a piece of some material (say hardwood) and thickness the material so that a) it is easy to gauge the amount to be removed, and b) keep the swarf/filings away from the body of the pot while you cut/file/sand/grind/machine the top of the shaft. Also... ink/paint the face of the jig so that you know when it's worn out from contact with the cutter.
david
Quote from: Kesh on January 28, 2013, 05:40:56 AM
Has anyone tried recessing the knob? My plan is to drill holes the size of the knobs then attach a plate of aluminium behind, drilling your normal pot holes in that.
Not a pedal but the same idea.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_2918-1.jpg)
^ very sweet.. 8)
Quote from: John Lyons on January 27, 2013, 09:38:11 PM
Use a lock washer between the pot and enclosure (inside).
Bingo.
Pots NEVER come with lock washers. They DO come with those little tabs to fit in a chassis hole and keep the pot steady, but not the locking washer. Precious few of us use that tab as intended, since it involves more work and more precise machining. The locking washer has no such limitations, and provides a very convenient way of not only keeping the pot steady so that it doesn't rotate inside as you tighten the nut outside, but also serves to "lower" the portion of the pot stickig out above the surface of the chassis.
Buy thineself a bag of locking washers.
On some pots (or with thick walled enclosures) the bushing isn't long enough to allow for the lockwasher and still have a enough thread exposed topside to engage the nut so before you snap off the anti-rotation tab check that there's enough threaded bushing.
dave
To answer the OP's original question, I had two pots (both 2.5K) with long shafts. I chucked the shafts in a drill press and marked the correct length. Then I switched on the drill press (lowest speed) and used a hacksaw to cut on the marked line. The end was slightly conical but a perfect fit and length. So start with a pot wth 4 inch shafts rather than something that is almost the right size - it is much easier.
hate to hijack
i have split shafts here , out of ignorance mainly . some of the nicer knobs i have purchased use set screws . those knobs never seem to be level after i tighten the set screw they sit at a bit of an angle , causeing the dreaded " knob wobble " .
this is what drives me nuts , well that " way too high knob " effect really stinks too ...
Thanks for the responses!
Ive noticed that too (knob wobble). So how do you get around that? Using push on knobs? These commercial pedal knobs looked sooooo slick...i've just suddenly realised an area i need to improve on!
Thats a good tip with the drill press amptramp! I'll have to try that!
I'm thinking though at this stage, its another reason to buy that long awaited dremel. I'm going to get one for my bday in april. I think thats certain. All these little jobs that i'm thinking up lately, a dremel is the right tool.
Paul
Quote from: davent on January 27, 2013, 09:17:30 PM
Drives me crazy when i see floating knobs.
I have the opposite problem. ;D
I hate having my knobs flush to the finish, in fear of them rubbing against the thick and sometimes uneven finish. Plus I think it looks weird. Sometimes I even "lift" the knob a few millimeters before I tighten the screw, so that there's a gap.
Fair enough cloudscapes, but i think a 2mm gap is much less then some of the knobs i have on my pedals! I'm talking more than 5mm. They look stupid trust me lol 2mm is perfect for what im aiming for.
Paul
+1 on the washers. cutting the shaft seems excessive.
Actually forgot to mention last night i was putting a few pedals together and 1 x nut, same size as you get with the pots / threads properly. This was pretty much the perfect height and there was still maybe...3 turns of the nut on top to grab on. Not the best outcome, but i tightened the hell out of it, i dont think its going anywhere...
But if i was to use lock washers...well, would i just use multiple lock wasers? 3 or 4 of them? I agree, washers (or an extra nut) seem far simplier then hacking at the shaft.
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on January 28, 2013, 08:03:12 PM
Fair enough cloudscapes, but i think a 2mm gap is much less then some of the knobs i have on my pedals! I'm talking more than 5mm. They look stupid trust me lol 2mm is perfect for what im aiming for.
Paul
7-8 whole blasphemous millimeters here ;)
http://nearworlds.org/stuff/PB010795.JPG
Though even I think this is too much. 3-4mm is fine for me. These aren't pots though, they're rotary encoders with longer shafts, and there's no room to add washers since there's a jack on the upper-left sandwiched between the PCB and the back cover with literally not a millimeter to spare.
Quote from: petey twofinger on January 28, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
hate to hijack
i have split shafts here , out of ignorance mainly . some of the nicer knobs i have purchased use set screws . those knobs never seem to be level after i tighten the set screw they sit at a bit of an angle , causeing the dreaded " knob wobble " .
this is what drives me nuts , well that " way too high knob " effect really stinks too ...
Couple options, the expensive purpose sold brass bushing that slips over the splined shaft to bring it up to 1/4" in diameter, works great and costs as much as the Tayda pot you'll be retrofitting.
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/BSH/Guitar-Bass-Control-Pot-Adapter-Bushings-2.html
I've had good results cutting a rectangle from brass shim sheet (couple mil thick) that i use to line the wall of the knob hole. Anal solutions for the anal soul.
dave
Quote from: cloudscapes on January 28, 2013, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: davent on January 27, 2013, 09:17:30 PM
Drives me crazy when i see floating knobs.
I have the opposite problem. ;D
I hate having my knobs flush to the finish, in fear of them rubbing against the thick and sometimes uneven finish. Plus I think it looks weird. Sometimes I even "lift" the knob a few millimeters before I tighten the screw, so that there's a gap.
Lay sheets of paper on two sides of the pot to maintain clearance above the enclosure until you finish tightening the set screw.
Quote from: greaser_au on January 28, 2013, 06:55:02 AM
When *I* saw the title, I thought Paul was advocating universal disposal of all knobs via the sanitary facilities.... :icon_lol:
I'm a big fan of jigs and templates generally, so I'd suggest once you know how long the shaft needs to be to suit the enclosures and knobs in use, that you drill a suitable close-fitting hole (maybe even a stepped hole such the bush of the pot also enters, (and a small hole for the lug) so that the body sits flat) in a piece of some material (say hardwood) and thickness the material so that a) it is easy to gauge the amount to be removed, and b) keep the swarf/filings away from the body of the pot while you cut/file/sand/grind/machine the top of the shaft. Also... ink/paint the face of the jig so that you know when it's worn out from contact with the cutter.
david
Are you my long lost twin?
I'm almost anal about making jigs for whatever I am working on. Especially if I plan on making more than one of something.
I haven't made one for this task though...YET :)
But its now on my list.
Quote from: chromesphere on January 28, 2013, 07:56:34 PM
Thanks for the responses!
Ive noticed that too (knob wobble). So how do you get around that? Using push on knobs? These commercial pedal knobs looked sooooo slick...i've just suddenly realised an area i need to improve on!
Thats a good tip with the drill press amptramp! I'll have to try that!
I'm thinking though at this stage, its another reason to buy that long awaited dremel. I'm going to get one for my bday in april. I think thats certain. All these little jobs that i'm thinking up lately, a dremel is the right tool.
Paul
you're not mixing splined pot shafts and set-screw knobs, are you?.... :icon_cry: (sorry, that is one of my pet hates, but the shaft bushes davent linked would take the curse off it...! Why, yes, I AM a Virgo, how ever did you know?!!! :icon_lol:) That said, some of my earliest childhood memories are of the TV and the fan having no knobs because knob set screws naturally work loose (unless you *WANT* them to come off, of course!!!) - an appropriately placed shallow drilling into the flat of the shaft and a spot of threadlocker will help a bit!
As was outlined in the 'what...did you get for xmas' thread, beware the loose taper fit DP chuck if you're going to rotary-cut your pot shafts- you'd likely be safer using a normal power drill.
david
^ I've got some of those white knobs, and they look HORRIBLE everywhere I try them.
I like sub-panels, which is a different kettle of fitch entirely. shafts need to be longer for a start.
tape over the workings and hacksaw, usually with a string of oversize nuts and a washer up the shaft, "to length". I'm also quite keen on sticking felt onto the underside of my knobs. I think it adds class, but nobody ever seems to notice or comment.
Quote from: cloudscapes on January 28, 2013, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: davent on January 27, 2013, 09:17:30 PM
Drives me crazy when i see floating knobs.
I have the opposite problem. ;D
I hate having my knobs flush to the finish, in fear of them rubbing against the thick and sometimes uneven finish. Plus I think it looks weird. Sometimes I even "lift" the knob a few millimeters before I tighten the screw, so that there's a gap.
This is a job for felt washers.
Quote from: duck_arse on January 29, 2013, 09:20:34 AM
... I'm also quite keen on sticking felt onto the underside of my knobs. I think it adds class, but nobody ever seems to notice or comment.
I've used the felt washers available here on a hifi preamp and they protect the faceplate fine. http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-H200
Has to be punches available somewhere allowing you to cut your own, maybe scrapbooking places have something suitable.
dave
When I read the thread title, I thought of this:
(http://effectsfreak.com/media/product_photo/78fbd29baa00ef9a425c7438151f007b.png)
If this idea was easy to copy, I would use it for all pedals that I use on stage...
When i read the title i thought of this:
(http://www.chromesphere.com/x/pedal/other/footflush.jpg)
Sorry i was feeling left out :(
Heaps of really good ideas in this thread!
My first attempt i've used a extra nut on the inside of the enclosure. Man...they just look so much better at a lower height. Amazed i didnt pick up on this earlier....
Paul
I also sometimes cut the tops of the shaft so the knobs are a bit closer to the box, but it's a real PITA.
So I bought a load of knobs on ebay with collars at the bottom to hide the shaft, and also some with longer sides. The are also made specially for the knurled split shafts, so are just push on and you never get the dreaded knob wobble from using the ones with grub screws.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20272266/boost-1.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20272266/tw-1.jpg)
Like the washer on the purple pedal! Looks like a metal washer? Certainly not thick enough to be white plastic. Looks good.
Nice color too!
Paul
Thanks, I use metal washers on all of them, they are not too thick, got them from musikding and also smallbear, I just hate those white plastic washers. If you're looking for any extra white plastic washers I have loads to spare ;D
Yeah I like that metallic purple - It brings back good memories of spray painting my first motorbike - an old Yamaha 125 Yazi with a two tone metalic purple and metalic blue - but that was a long long time ago, so sorry for sidetracking the thread.
Thanks Pyro, i checked out musicding's, says they are inner diameter 12mm (obviously) outter diagmeter 20mm. Might see if i can find some of these at my local hardware store.
Thanks again!
Paul
Everything stated here already, but what the hell, I'll chime in.
I never could cut the tops off the shafts evenly so the knobs always end up wobbly. Using nuts or washers on the underside works best for me, but also using taller knobs is an option I go with.
You might be able to find them at your local hardware store, but if it is anything like mine, they will be around 2 to 3 times as thick, and will not look right. good luck.
Hmmm. Good point. I'll keep an eye out for that.
I agree bluesdevil, extra washers or nut underneth is far simplier.
Paul
Some problems I have found when using extra washers and locknuts inside the case, when I try to mount the pcb on top of the pots, it doesn't fit, caps tend to bump off the lid, etc. :(
You know i was thinking that as i typed my last message :) all have their pro's and con's. For now im going to be shortening the pots from the inside. When i get a dremel i might look into cutting them.
Paul
Just use a junior hacksaw, clamp the pot in a small bench vice if you have one.
put the potshaft in the chuck of your drill. spin slowly. use your cutoff wheel on your dremel to make the cut on your poor man's lathe. centered cut every time. not for the weak of mind or hand.
The easiest and cheapest solution is to buy pots and push-on knobs from Tayda:
(http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/albums/userpics/23524/ssfg.jpg)
Only problem: They look like shit...
^ lol, yes they do....cool pedal though. 8)
Quote from: roseblood11 on January 30, 2013, 03:53:56 AM
Only problem: They look like sh*t...
Black texta (sharpie) time... :) ...but seriously, maybe an oil paint pen would be a a better idea (I'd paint the 'smile' and leave the index). Over the last couple of parts orders I bought 10 of each index colour (of the black ones).
The UXCELL low-cost push-on knobs don't look too bad - I found them a bit 'cheesy' once you are holding them loose, but they fit and work reasonably well: http://www.uxcell.com/pcs-6mm-split-shaft-insert-dia-blue-mark-black-potentiometer-knobs-caps-p-189959.html (http://www.uxcell.com/pcs-6mm-split-shaft-insert-dia-blue-mark-black-potentiometer-knobs-caps-p-189959.html) can get them in green, white, red, yellow, and (of course), blue (hit me if you want the various URLs - the site search engine is not fantastic, and it took me hours to find them all). Just for completeness- they also have several other knob types in both screw & spline.
david
Quote from: roseblood11 on January 29, 2013, 05:17:22 PM
When I read the thread title, I thought of this:
(http://effectsfreak.com/media/product_photo/78fbd29baa00ef9a425c7438151f007b.png)
If this idea was easy to copy, I would use it for all pedals that I use on stage...
wow...okay, how have they done this? Are those trimpots? Love the look!