So a buddy asked if it was possible to make a pedal that sounds like he's playing guitar with a bow. I'm sure it is, but I don't know how. Basically something that's maybe reverby with a sh*tton of sustain? Maybe a bunch of compression so there's no attack to the note? He mentioned reverse reverb. I've never used one before and don't really know what they do (other than seeing a few youtube demos).
Any ideas on how to achieve this sound with a diy pedal?
Boss slowgear or being quick with the pinky, like yngwie did in the eighties
Quote from: Johan on June 03, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
Boss slowgear or being quick with the pinky, like yngwie did in the eighties
Can a volume pedal create the same affect?
Quote from: chi_boy on June 03, 2013, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: Johan on June 03, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
Boss slowgear or being quick with the pinky, like yngwie did in the eighties
Can a volume pedal create the same affect?
Yes. The pivotal question is how you want to employ it and what picking rate. There are limits to what your ankle or your pinky can manage without cramping up.
For electronic devices like the Slow Gear, there are also limits to how fast the note detection circuitry can adapt and reset. I have a Line 6 Echo Park, and one of the modes/programs, labelled "swell", provides for a gradual volume swell on each echo repeat. If I set it for no feedback (i.e., only ONE repeat), a short delay time (to reduce lag between picking and what comes out), and 100% wet signal (so that ONLY the "swell" sound comes out), it makes a very dependable and usable "bowed" sound with significantly more dependable triggering/tracking than the Slow Gear or similar analog units. Probably not good enough for rapid-fire picking the way that something like a synth with variable attack time would be, but more than serviceable.
Not a pedal, but that's what the Ebow does. It takes some time to learn how to use it, but it was designed to simulate the bowed sound. Also the Sustainiac add-on pickup system, which requires a mod to your guitar but does something similar. I think those two will give a more realistic bowed-sound than a pedal will IMO.
Al
Quote from: Johan on June 03, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
Boss slowgear
I thought the exact same thing, but the only thing is that it doesn't really sustain like a string being played with a bow.
Quote from: zombiwoof on June 03, 2013, 09:05:41 AM
Not a pedal, but that's what the Ebow does. It takes some time to learn how to use it, but it was designed to simulate the bowed sound. Also the Sustainiac add-on pickup system, which requires a mod to your guitar but does something similar. I think those two will give a more realistic bowed-sound than a pedal will IMO.
I agree that both of those work pretty good - if you use some finger vibrato too, that makes it sound a little more realistic.
The famous E-bow as well as the magnetic sustainers are unique stuff. Nothing compares to them for sure.
build your own ebow...i did and it works quite well.. :icon_cool:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/ebowdiy666.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO0dsElQ8Mk
what size the coil you use and the magnets :icon_question: cheers!
look on the vid below pic above, it shows what i built at the end...
basically its 2 coils wrapped around a metal rod core, with magnets on the end...if you use just magnets with wire wrapped around they will work, but will obviously be magnetic
and pull to the strings...thats why a core is used...
tip: use the thinnest copper wire you can get your hands on..
one coil is used as an input...50ohms
other coil for output (speaker) 8ohms
i used mini cotton reels to wind the coils, and have the rod/core in the middle.
on the vid i had croc clips going to breadboarded 386.
magnets were neo magnets, 5mm/3mm
You can sort of spoof a bowed instrument sound, by 'violining' the guitar (plenty of youtube vids showing the effect)....some form of sustainer would help (on account a bowed sting can be perpetuated & doesn't fade out like a guitar string)
When ROM memory was *very* expensive in the early 80s, Roland sussed you could fool the human ear by just sampling the 'signature' attack of an instrument...therefore the rasp of a trumpet, the chiff of a flute...and then put a synthesized tail after the initial sample (google LA synthesis ...the mt-32 used it etc). I'm pretty sure if you triggered the 'attack' of a bow sample at the front of each of your played notes (for example triggered by an envelop detector), then that would sound pretty convincing...you'd need a gritty sound (subsequently filtered), because a bowed string is way more richer in harmonics than a decaying guitar string.
A cheaper more immediate alternative is to get yourself a violin bow! (it was a good enough solution for Jimmy Page!)
Quote from: Gurner on June 03, 2013, 11:09:11 AM
A cheaper more immediate alternative is to get yourself a violin bow! (it was a good enough solution for Jimmy Page!)
I can't imagine how you could use a bow on a guitar - the neck is too flat is you ask me. I know Jimmy Page did it somehow, but it seems like it just wouldn't work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHabvURnpk
hmmmm only the E's by the looks of it......seems impossible to play A/D/G/B strings with a bow..
plus it probably gunks up your strings with resin.. :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 03, 2013, 11:52:57 AM
hmmmm only the E's by the looks of it......seems impossible to play A/D/G/B strings with a bow..
Yeah. I agree.
only a bow sound like playing a bow.... an e-bow sounds close
seems to me your buddy has some unreal expectations, i usually try to run away from those requests...
*edit YT link*
Quote from: cpm on June 03, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzUqGB1TD3
only a bow sound like playing a bow.... an e-bow sounds close
seems to me your buddy has some unreal expectations, i usually try to run away from those requests...
invalid link dude.
Quote...a buddy asked if it was possible to make a pedal that sounds like he's playing guitar with a bow...
playing a bow on what and how?
we rarely think of staccato strings as being played with a bow but they are. the 'bowed' sound has certain connotations as to the expected sonic outcome. generally slow legato lines if played melodically (or otherwise purely for aural, whale song or scrape-y effect.)
hence the suggestions for slow gear or other such envelope effects. combined with reverb/delay most effective. buried in a busy mix almost convincing as strings, perhaps. i have fun with a volume pedal.
but what do we (your buddy) mean by bowed sound? lets hire a string player/section says the producer. ask your buddy what he means. buy him a bow or an ebow. hire him a string player. or put an envelope pedal and a reverb in a funky looking enclosure and give it a cool sounding name. :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowed_guitar
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/3686-guitar-tips-playing-guitar-with-a-violin-bow.html
*another thought* re: shape of guitar fret board... how about fashioning a curved shim (or two?) to place under the strings? retuning would be required, obviously, but may provide easier access to the middle strings if using an actual bow?
*one last thought* mount an ebow on a gooseneck connected to a mic stand at fretboard height and lean into it as required? think there's an actual 'product' called the vibro-something or other that is basically this?
My first thought was to run from the request as well! But I thought I should ask for ideas first. I think the "bow" sound he's looking for is like a reverby, delayed thing. Virtually no attack, a shitton of sustain, probably some swell rather than the attack of hitting the string. I instantly thought analog delay with feedback/# of delays turned way up, wet mix turned way up, super wet holy grail reverb after that, and a volume pedal to control the attack. And maybe some compression in there to smooth everything out. Hell, maybe even throw an EHX freeze in there somewhere. Haha.
The ebow is a great idea. I forgot about those. Haven't used mine in a long time.
I'll try to find the link to the video and post here. I saw once an ingenuous device to make a guitar sound like it's played with a bow (and it worked with acoustics, even nylon strings).
You need a cotton string impregnated with wax. Tie the waxed string to one of the guitar strings (works best with the wirewound ones), near the bridge. Now you hold the waxed string with your right hand between index and thumb and slide your fingers away from the guitar top. When you find the right finger pressure it sounds like a bow.
That's the basic principle. The guitar in the video had wooden sticks pre-attached to the bridge that held the wax strings (one for each bass string) "in position".
Not the most versatile setup, but it's so simple to try.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gizmo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gizmo)?
I've pushed reverb quite a bit before, probably because I think it sounds awesome. :D More so than a volume pedal or slow gear, since it makes legato easier. You can start another note while one is decaying without having the levels go all weird.It works better on bass, but is still OK on guitar.
Take a reverb and cut the dry signal. You want a high roomsize and reverb time, no low cut, and a bit of pre delay. The swell and tone of the reverb has a very bowed feel, in the attack and decay. It sustains for a bit like a bow as well; different levels of feedback and reverb time can be used to get the sustain level desired.
To get a waveform closer to an actual violin, distortion works great.It also adds a bit of extra sustain to the tone. I think I used a Rat or Tubescreamer for it. The Tubescreamer would probably be better, since it's not as distorted. You don't need too much, just a bit of dirt. The TS would also help since it's got some mid boost, similar to one of a violin's resonances. A bit of high cut may help to smooth it out as well, though reverb generally rolls of the highs in a nice mellow way too.
A digital reverb work best of course, since there's a lot that you can adjust. I did use a spring reverb with decent results too but it wasn't as good on guitar. I haven't tried any of the delay-based reverbs here. I should try making one with distortion as a one-stompbox string simulator.
Hope this helps.