Hi All,
I hope you can help me solve my problem – I've built a SHO clone with this kit:
http://pedalparts.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Boner.pdf
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/kimaimesuiv/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0669_zps24yflr3p.jpg) (http://s965.photobucket.com/user/kimaimesuiv/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0669_zps24yflr3p.jpg.html)
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/kimaimesuiv/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0670_zpssdiaud7w.jpg) (http://s965.photobucket.com/user/kimaimesuiv/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0670_zpssdiaud7w.jpg.html)
It worked at 1st test (the footswitch isn't wired yet), but not at the 2nd testing a few days later.
I did try to see how it would fit in the enclosure in the meantime, and did wiggle the pot a bit.
Now all I get is a very weak signal with the pot all the way down, and the signal gets weaker as the pot is turned up.
The bypass is fine, I get full signal through to the amp when the pedal isn't powered.
I've since reflowed all solder points, with no change, and have taken the following readings.
I don't get any volt readings on anything going to ground or the pot, not sure if that is normal or not?
I hope you guys can help – so frustrating to know that it isn't working anymore!!!!
Thank you!
R1
6.2v
0v
R2
6.2v
6.2v
R3
9.5v
6.2v
R4
0v
0v
D1
9.5v
6.2v
D2
0v
6.2v
C1
6.2v
0v
C2
6.2v
0v
Q1
3.1v
6.2v
6.2v
If you have a solder pump, remove those solders.They look really bad.Resolder everything properly.It looks like you have big solder lumps and you could have cold spots.Also check if you have accidentaly lifted up any trace on the circuit, if you have just make a jumper in the place it occured.
hang in there
I can't open a PDF at work called Boner. :icon_lol:
Make sure you don't have your input/output jacks mixed up. I do that all the time.
I second cleaning up the solder. Make sure your iron is clean when you do this too to keep the crud off your joints. Also, make sure you've making good contact with the pad when you solder so it gets hot and the solder sticks to it. You'll get the hang of it soon enough.
Quote from: garfo on February 19, 2014, 11:06:57 AM
If you have a solder pump, remove those solders.They look really bad.Resolder everything properly.It looks like you have big solder lumps and you could have cold spots.Also check if you have accidentaly lifted up any trace on the circuit, if you have just make a jumper in the place it occured.
You're quite right, not the most pristine soldering there...!!!
That's why I was soooooo relieved when it worked during my 1st test!
And then disappointed after the 2nd test!!!
I don't have a solder pump, but have touched up all solder joints since that picture!
Quote from: mth5044 on February 19, 2014, 12:12:48 PM
I can't open a PDF at work called Boner. :icon_lol:
Eh, eh, eh!!!
Quote from: gjcamann on February 19, 2014, 12:29:15 PM
Make sure you don't have your input/output jacks mixed up. I do that all the time.
I second cleaning up the solder. Make sure your iron is clean when you do this too to keep the crud off your joints. Also, make sure you've making good contact with the pad when you solder so it gets hot and the solder sticks to it. You'll get the hang of it soon enough.
Sadly it isn't the input jacks.... :(
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/kimaimesuiv/DSC_0686_zpsfchjyxn0.jpg) (http://s965.photobucket.com/user/kimaimesuiv/media/DSC_0686_zpsfchjyxn0.jpg.html)
So here's my cleaned up soldering.
I would have a few questions.
Is it normal for all voltage readings going to ground to be 0v?
Is it normal to not read any voltage in the in leg if C1 and out leg of C2?
Is R4 affecting the circuit at all, considering it's going straight to ground?
How do I check if the 5k pot us working?
And thank you for your replies and the welcome, much appreciated!
R4 is an anti pop resistor and probably has some bearing on the output impedance.
C1and C2 are input and output decoupling caps .
R1 and R2 form a voltage divider to bias the MOSFETs gate To half the 9v power supply.
How do you check if the pot works?
With the circuit powered down put the multi meter probes on the middle and one of the outer lugs with the meter set to ohms setting. Then with your third hand turn t
He pot and watch the resistance change on the DDM (digital multi meter)
I hope I'm right on at least some of this and I hope it helps
Rich
Quote from: Kipper4 on February 19, 2014, 04:58:10 PM
R4 is an anti pop resistor and probably has some bearing on the output impedance.
C1and C2 are input and output decoupling caps .
R1 and R2 form a voltage divider to bias the MOSFETs gate To half the 9v power supply.
How do you check if the pot works?
With the circuit powered down put the multi meter probes on the middle and one of the outer lugs with the meter set to ohms setting. Then with your third hand turn t
He pot and watch the resistance change on the DDM (digital multi meter)
I hope I'm right on at least some of this and I hope it helps
Rich
Thanks a lot!
Will check the pot tonight using my 3rd hand - quite glad I decided to grow one!
SO I assume it's normal not to see any voltage on the guitar in and amp out side of the caps?
And normal not to read any voltage on anything going to ground?
Going to read about decoupling capacitors now....
Quote from: Les Paul Lover on February 19, 2014, 10:10:10 AM
Q1
3.1v
6.2v
6.2v
if the voltages are the same, it means those points are shorted (connected)...and they shouldn't be.
Fuzz Skull - Lugs 1 and 2 and connected on the schematic. The pot is a acts as a variable resistor.
Les Paul - It looks like you soldered Q1 directly to the board instead of using a socket. You may have fried it with all the soldering. Also using the power jack as your central grounding point isn't the best approach. The tabs on it are pretty flimsy and could have come loose. You are better off using one of the audio jacks. Connect the board, power jack and second audio jack to it.
yer the transistor might be blown.
When soldering transistors directly to a board it's a good idea/practice to heat sink the leg you are soldering in.
I use a pair of long nose pliers with an elastic band round the grip ( to clamp the pliers nose to the leg. this can help hold it in place as well) and put it around the leg im about to solder in (componant side). it dissipate the heat from the soldering action and protects the transistor somewhat.
did you check for solder bridges too?
the solder looks a bit blobby around the transistor. you can use the heat sink method and remove some of the solder with a solder pump.
failing that pm me your address and i'll send you a new transistor to try.
good luck
Rich
yer its quite normal not to see DC voltages in the audio path since the guitar signal is AC.
the decoupling caps i talked about earlier are there to stop DC getting into the circuit.
Quote from: Kipper4 on February 19, 2014, 04:58:10 PM
R4 is an anti pop resistor and probably has some bearing on the output impedance.
C1and C2 are input and output decoupling caps .
R1 and R2 form a voltage divider to bias the MOSFETs gate To half the 9v power supply.
How do you check if the pot works?
With the circuit powered down put the multi meter probes on the middle and one of the outer lugs with the meter set to ohms setting. Then with your third hand turn t
He pot and watch the resistance change on the DDM (digital multi meter)
I hope I'm right on at least some of this and I hope it helps
Rich
Ok, had some time last night and got to check to pot over.
Reading we're fine at the holes before the lugs, however I was getting any reading on the soldered lugs. I resoldered them, and am now getting good readings there.... However, the circuit isn't working still.
Since the diodes are ok, the caps seem fine too, resistors are hard to mess up with.... I believe my next port of cal is replacing the transistor BS170.
Quote from: peterg on February 20, 2014, 08:39:49 AM
Fuzz Skull - Lugs 1 and 2 and connected on the schematic. The pot is a acts as a variable resistor.
Les Paul - It looks like you soldered Q1 directly to the board instead of using a socket. You may have fried it with all the soldering. Also using the power jack as your central grounding point isn't the best approach. The tabs on it are pretty flimsy and could have come loose. You are better off using one of the audio jacks. Connect the board, power jack and second audio jack to it.
Thanks for the tip!!
I'll have to unsolder the ground and energy supply once I fully wire it in the box, I will foreground it to the inpout or output Jack then!
Quote from: Kipper4 on February 20, 2014, 09:50:48 AM
yer the transistor might be blown.
When soldering transistors directly to a board it's a good idea/practice to heat sink the leg you are soldering in.
I use a pair of long nose pliers with an elastic band round the grip ( to clamp the pliers nose to the leg. this can help hold it in place as well) and put it around the leg im about to solder in (componant side). it dissipate the heat from the soldering action and protects the transistor somewhat.
did you check for solder bridges too?
the solder looks a bit blobby around the transistor. you can use the heat sink method and remove some of the solder with a solder pump.
failing that pm me your address and i'll send you a new transistor to try.
good luck
Rich
Thank you so much for the offer! Very kind of you! I have actually bought a spare one a couple of weeks ago knowing I'd struggle to get one if needed ( I happened to be near an excellent independent electrical shop), REALLY cheap too! Got a great multimeter there for not much - I think £18, the does diodes, V AC/DC, Ohms, dwarfs, temperature and hfe.
Also got a helping hand for £4 which I thought was very good too. They sell the thin solar by the meter too .... £0.35/m.... I could go on and On! You wonder how they make a living!
Quote from: Les Paul Lover on February 21, 2014, 06:01:43 PM
Got a great multimeter there for not much - I think £18, the does diodes, V AC/DC, Ohms, dwarfs, temperature and hfe.
can we, err, see, this meter? not much call for the dwarfs range, but interesting.
Quote from: peterg on February 20, 2014, 08:39:49 AM
Fuzz Skull - Lugs 1 and 2 and connected on the schematic. The pot is a acts as a variable resistor.
totally misread Fuzz Skull's comment. Q1 should have 3 different voltages as he points out.
Quote from: duck_arse on February 22, 2014, 10:18:04 AM
Quote from: Les Paul Lover on February 21, 2014, 06:01:43 PM
Got a great multimeter there for not much - I think £18, the does diodes, V AC/DC, Ohms, dwarfs, temperature and hfe.
can we, err, see, this meter? not much call for the dwarfs range, but interesting.
Dwarf measurement is all important in pedal building. It makes the difference between strong and stout fuzz and weedy ones. Either that or my spellchecker corrected farad without my permission......
Good DMM regardless I think though. It's a Mercury EM890G. I found one place selling them on the net, but Couldn't manage to copy link on my phone. In any case, it was £20 + postage online, so £18 from local shop makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :D
Quote from: peterg on February 22, 2014, 12:03:44 PM
Quote from: peterg on February 20, 2014, 08:39:49 AM
Fuzz Skull - Lugs 1 and 2 and connected on the schematic. The pot is a acts as a variable resistor.
totally misread Fuzz Skull's comment. Q1 should have 3 different voltages as he points out.
I thought that was the case. The pot lug 1 & 2 are linked. I'm obviously no expert - :icon_rolleyes:. I have contacted the kit seller who reckoned the readings On the BS170 should be 3v, 6v & 0v.
I will try replacing it tomorrow if my son allows me some free time. I'll make sure I'll heat sink it, because I redo didn't do it 1st time around......!!!!
I sure hope to have it sorted soon!
And thanks to you all for the informations and ideas, I really appreciate it.
I've learnt more messing up that build than I would have otherwise, and it's very interesting.
One last thing I didn't quite get please.... Is it normal to net read any voltage on the ground side of the circuit? I'm thinking D2, takes 6.2v, but with mo readings On the ground side - I would have expected to read 6.2v there too?
stout fuzz? no, thanks.
the ground side of the circuit is ground, 0V, (-), earth, it has "no potential". it is the reference point from which we measure. it doesn't matter if positive earth or negative earth. any point connected to earth will, should, MUST read 0Volts difference to any other point grounded. so all those "GND" points across the bottom of the circuit are electrically the same, short-circuited to each other, common.
so, put your black meter lead on any one of those marked points, and leave it there for all your measures. measure to the junction of D1 and D2, and it will read the same voltage as across the R1//R2 junction, because they are the same point, all joined. note that voltage.
measure to the top of D1, which is "common" to the 9V, (+), B+, supply, Vcc line. subtract the voltage you noted above, and that is the voltage across D1. do the same at the R2//R3 junction, which will give you the drain voltage, as the three points are again, common. common to each other, not common to all the other commons I've noted.
and that only leaves the pin3 of the pot, the source voltage. now you've collected the whole set, and they should be sane, if not correct. if you read anything higher than your V+, there is something amiss in your method.
(at the input terminal, the end of C1 "has no reference", and will float to whatever voltage is nearby. this is why we use depopp resistors, to reference the whole circuit to something, which we often call ground. at the output the larger cap has its end "pulled to ground", so it can't float, and should also measure 0V because no current is flowing through the [good] capacitor.) I hope some of this clarifies.
Quote from: duck_arse on February 23, 2014, 09:02:34 AM
stout fuzz? no, thanks.
the ground side of the circuit is ground, 0V, (-), earth, it has "no potential". it is the reference point from which we measure. it doesn't matter if positive earth or negative earth. any point connected to earth will, should, MUST read 0Volts difference to any other point grounded. so all those "GND" points across the bottom of the circuit are electrically the same, short-circuited to each other, common.
so, put your black meter lead on any one of those marked points, and leave it there for all your measures. measure to the junction of D1 and D2, and it will read the same voltage as across the R1//R2 junction, because they are the same point, all joined. note that voltage.
measure to the top of D1, which is "common" to the 9V, (+), B+, supply, Vcc line. subtract the voltage you noted above, and that is the voltage across D1. do the same at the R2//R3 junction, which will give you the drain voltage, as the three points are again, common. common to each other, not common to all the other commons I've noted.
and that only leaves the pin3 of the pot, the source voltage. now you've collected the whole set, and they should be sane, if not correct. if you read anything higher than your V+, there is something amiss in your method.
(at the input terminal, the end of C1 "has no reference", and will float to whatever voltage is nearby. this is why we use depopp resistors, to reference the whole circuit to something, which we often call ground. at the output the larger cap has its end "pulled to ground", so it can't float, and should also measure 0V because no current is flowing through the [good] capacitor.) I hope some of this clarifies.
Thanks a lot!!!!!!
I've learnt a lot through my failings, and that I'd thanks to you and the other people who have tried to help me!
I'm very thankful!
--------------
I removed the BS170. I was glad I kept all the component's trimmed leg, they came in really handy to reopen the pcb soldered up holes.
And the BS170 was the culprit, I had fried it. I was very pleased to hear it work again! That boost is VERY Powerful, even at the lowest setting!
Now.... I need to finish painting the enclosure, and wire the switch and diode!!!! All very exciting!!!!
I'm glad it's working! Sorry to hear about the loss of your BS170 though.
Quote from: peterg on February 23, 2014, 07:03:14 PM
I'm glad it's working! Sorry to hear about the loss of your BS170 though.
Yes it was a bitter sweet moment.
This BS170 looked to have a promising future, but it was tragicaly cut short. Knowing that I'm the cause of it didn't help.
We had full service and burial, the eulogy was very touching.
I recovered after a whisky and plugging in the working SHO clone. That thing is ace. :)
I will make sure to post the completed pedal once done!
shame it's already buried, I wanted you to measure its gnomes.
Quote from: duck_arse on February 24, 2014, 08:13:28 AM
shame it's already buried, I wanted you to measure its gnomes.
Are they important to Fuzzes? I thought it was the dwarves..... I'm confused!!!!! :icon_eek:
Now that I've debugged it, I kept on going with the project, with the aim to get it in the box ASAP. I thought I'd post my updates to you. :)
I have done a neat teamplate to paint my 1st box, and decide to have a go with it......
- 1st try: painted quite liberally, paint flowed everywhere underneath the template. right mess. I considered myself lucky to be able to sand it off and save myself a full repaint.
- 2nd try: using a thinner brush and little paint, I manage to get a clean but weak outline. It's when I passed over it again that I did the damage.... My hand isn't steady enough with a brush, and it looked like a tremor line. I had to pass over and over it again, resulting in it being as thick as it is now. (see pic below for entertainment value)
It is now absolutely obvious that I was deluded in thinking I could pull that off. Let me repeat it: I can't draw fir Sh!t. Seriously, if your life was depending on a drawing, let your dog do it and ignore me.
Anyway..... Pic for your entertainment....
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/kimaimesuiv/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0692_zpstxjqmcgc.jpg) (http://s965.photobucket.com/user/kimaimesuiv/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0692_zpstxjqmcgc.jpg.html)[/quote]
I've decided to keep it as is anyway. This SHO clone was a learning prjoect, and it sure has been one. I've learnt lots. And lots. And some of my limitations.....
Where it is frustrating, it's that I wanted to paint a whale outline on the blue box for my reverb. I'm not quite so sure I can pull it off now.....
I rekon the bustier looks fine as is, and plenny others hereabouts would agree, I'm sure. if you're using a stencil, you're better off spraying over it instead of brushing. a shaving brush. from the 2$ shop. cut the end off square/flat. stick down yr stencil of a whale, v. lightly load up the brush w/ some paint, white? and then dab dab dab (jab jab jab?) around the outline. remove stencil - there it is. something, anyway.
I'm sure of lots of stuff tonight. I'm sure my eyes aren't good enuff for stencil cutting any more. you might think of adding some more paint to the bustier, to add texture to the under-curves (you know the ones).
I'm just about to start painting boxes, I've bent my prototype today, gotta start measure cut sand drill bend. then I'll need some paint techniques - so many to choose from ......
Quote from: duck_arse on March 04, 2014, 09:11:49 AM
I rekon the bustier looks fine as is, and plenny others hereabouts would agree, I'm sure. if you're using a stencil, you're better off spraying over it instead of brushing. a shaving brush. from the 2$ shop. cut the end off square/flat. stick down yr stencil of a whale, v. lightly load up the brush w/ some paint, white? and then dab dab dab (jab jab jab?) around the outline. remove stencil - there it is. something, anyway.
I'm sure of lots of stuff tonight. I'm sure my eyes aren't good enuff for stencil cutting any more. you might think of adding some more paint to the bustier, to add texture to the under-curves (you know the ones).
I'm just about to start painting boxes, I've bent my prototype today, gotta start measure cut sand drill bend. then I'll need some paint techniques - so many to choose from ......
I'm getting used to my drawing - it's just quite different from the nice neat thin lines it was meant to be....... :icon_lol:
I've decided I'm going to go ahead and try for the whale too. I may try slightly differently though, not with a stencil but rather a shape to lay on the pedal and keep there.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna add another layer to the breast area, but I will clear coat it too, bbecause that's another thing i want to learn to do. :)