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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Jmsteele187 on March 22, 2015, 09:09:45 AM

Title: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 22, 2015, 09:09:45 AM
I've been trying to learn the ins and outs of guitar effects electronics for a while.  But I feel like I need to take my knowledge further.  I can read schematics, I've also been modding pedals for a few years now, and I've built a handful.  However, when I build something, I'm always copying something someone else has already done.  Which is fun, but I'd like to design my own circuits.  Can anyone recommend some interwebz reading that will give me an understanding about how all these circuits work, so I can start coming up with my own toys?
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Brisance on March 22, 2015, 09:47:54 AM
Get a simulator, even an online one, draw your favourite circuit and start tweaking, that will teach whats going on there.

Also get something like "The art of electronics" book, that's a great read.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 22, 2015, 10:16:46 AM
Tell me a little more about these simulators.  Do you just put in a schem, and it simulates how it works?
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Brisance on March 22, 2015, 10:55:58 AM
Yes. pretty much, for simple concepts, http://www.falstad.com/circuit/ is a pretty nice online tool, I have learned a lot using it. Going more advanced, there's stuff like LTspice and TINA, which do all sorts of stuff like stress analysis, tolerance worst case schenario etc.

TINA: http://www.designsoftware.com/home/English/&
LTspice:
http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/

Examples:

Currently designing a distortion with TINA, here's the input and output superimposed:
(http://i.imgur.com/UALVDGi.png)
Here's the frequency response curves for it:
(http://i.imgur.com/1QpvqFSl.png) (http://imgur.com/1QpvqFS.png)

Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: PRR on March 22, 2015, 06:30:26 PM
> I'm always copying something someone else has already done.

EVERYthing in small audio has already been done. (A dozen exceptions in the least several decades.)

Plagiarize. Understand. Modify. Shamelessly.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: tca on March 22, 2015, 06:50:34 PM
> EVERYthing in small audio has already been done.
I agree with that statement. But should I ask: what do you mean by small audio?
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: MaxPower on March 23, 2015, 01:09:47 AM
^Had a witty rejoinder for that but figured some might take it wrong.

I recommend the textbook: Electronic Principles by Malvino. For what it's worth, I found Tina-ti easier to figure out without reading any manuals (what manuals?) than LTSpice.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 23, 2015, 05:12:56 AM
Thank you guys.  When I get a chance, I'll take a look at those simulators, and look into a couple books.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 25, 2015, 09:38:38 AM
Ok, so I've downloaded LTspice and I've been messing around with it.  It seems pretty useful.  I do have one question about it though.  How do you make a potentiometer or variable resistor (whatever you want to call it) in the program?  Also, I decided to download the freeware version of EagleCad.  I'm not sure how to run it though.  After download, there were just a bunch of folders all over my desktop.  If you haven't guessed, I'm not the most computer savvy person out there.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Brisance on March 25, 2015, 09:42:01 AM
IIRC theres no pots in LTspice, but there are in TINA. Workaround is to replace it with 2 resistors
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 25, 2015, 09:47:59 AM
I'm assuming you'd run the resistors in parallel, and label it accordingly on the schem.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Brisance on March 25, 2015, 09:49:26 AM
In series. That's what a pot basically is, two resistors, center tapped

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer#/media/File:Potentiometer_with_load.svg

I suggest you start with the online simulator for the basics, it allows you visualize the voltages and currents in real time
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 25, 2015, 09:57:49 AM
Ok.  Now I feel a little dumb, lol.  That makes perfect sense.  How would I determin the size of each resistor?  Say I wanted a 500k. 
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Brisance on March 25, 2015, 10:01:52 AM
Depends on the setting, they need to sum up to 500k. A 500k pot just wipes the center tap along a 500k resistor, leaving amounts of that 500k to either side.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Jmsteele187 on March 25, 2015, 10:14:44 AM
thanks for the help!  I'll try adjusting the the values to see what I get in the sim.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: GibsonGM on March 25, 2015, 11:17:59 AM
With some hunting, you can find a pot model that simply *works*, with no "include" statements to need to remember.   I forget just where I got mine, but it works just like any other component.    There is some stuff here on it:  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/230071-ltspice-potentiometer.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/230071-ltspice-potentiometer.html)

I know it's a pain to set that up, but well worth it, and also teaches you how to add stuff to LT.   Come back with questions ;)

Generally, you have to place a symbol file in one folder of the program the 'definition' in another...read the post....
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: GibsonGM on March 25, 2015, 11:19:48 AM
And HERE: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/importing-models-into-ltspice.36456/ (http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/importing-models-into-ltspice.36456/)  Sign up free if you have to...look at Post #15!   
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Thecomedian on March 25, 2015, 07:13:26 PM
Quote from: Jmsteele187 on March 25, 2015, 10:14:44 AM
thanks for the help!  I'll try adjusting the the values to see what I get in the sim.

The way I do it is node to the next stage or cap or whatever from between the series resistors which implicate the "pot", then shift the numbers from 500k on bottom and 1 ohm on top to 500k on top and 1 ohm on bottom, to indicate the wiper going from "10" to "0".

The resistance through the pot to ground should always be constant, while the resistance shifts for the wiper from 0 to the circuit to 0 to ground, with the other side being the opposite.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: GibsonGM on March 25, 2015, 07:48:50 PM
Once you figure out how to add a "real" pot, it's MUCH simpler, IMHO. You can sweep the wiper, no 'extra' math or anything.   Well worth looking around the links I posted to see how it's done.

I did it about 5 yrs. ago, and forget now, but recall all I needed to do was place a few files in some subdirectories, and the program recognized it, includes it in the components list (no .include needed).
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: MaxPower on March 26, 2015, 02:22:48 AM
As stated previously by someone, Tina-ti has pots. You might also give Multisim Blue a try, it also has pots.
Title: Re: Learning electronics
Post by: Saint Louis Toneworks on March 26, 2015, 03:31:19 PM
I guess this stuff is floating around because it is not copyrighted or the creator does not care - I look at like playing the guitar, you must first copy the masters and learn the technique, find something of your own to grab even if its just a tiny piece of nothing, and work it into your own creative artwork. A lot of time things are discovered by accident , and by thinking waaaay outside the box. set up a practice lab and experiment