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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: KiwiDoc on May 04, 2015, 09:52:21 PM

Title: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: KiwiDoc on May 04, 2015, 09:52:21 PM
hi all, firs time poster long time reader.
I'm based in New Zealand, really I have spent a lot of time on amps and guitars and just starting out with effects.
I'm building the Anderton stage centre reverb stand alone spring reverb unit.
It calls for bipolar -/+9v supply.
I see there is a lot on this topic on the web.
Specifically I wonder if I can use an lt1054 chip in place of max1044 in this schematic? Ie are the pins interchangeable?
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag395/ajcarrie1/3e1047a6d0867e1aa0500be8184a9aa9_zpsjrx1xmqu.jpg)

As I understand the lt1054 will give more greater to,era de as far as current draw is concerned, which might be useful with the spring reverb.

If anyone has a better looking schematic/ layout for supplying 9v bipolar from a +9v DC supply then I'd be very appreciative.

Thanks guys,

Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: tubegeek on May 04, 2015, 10:13:16 PM
I dunno, but here's what I'd do:

• look at the data sheet for the LT1054
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1054lfh.pdf (http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1054lfh.pdf)

• look at the data sheet for the MAX1044
http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/ICL7660-MAX1044.pdf (http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/ICL7660-MAX1044.pdf)

• see if the pinouts match.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: KiwiDoc on May 04, 2015, 10:44:10 PM
Yes, it appears pin outs match. Thank you,
Will this schematic suit my purposes?
Also there is another schamtic that involves the sleeve and ring of a stereo jack in the build. I assume this is the input of the pedal.
What benefit is this??
(http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag395/ajcarrie1/05e2898fc9cc0917358dc0ee999665b8_zpstmdmvm3y.jpg)
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: Beo on May 04, 2015, 11:21:38 PM
Check out the roadrage and madbeans.com. The write up should tell you everything you'd like to know about the different chip options.

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/index.html
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: mth5044 on May 05, 2015, 12:12:59 AM
^ Came in there to recommend the roadrage ^

Read up about whether pins 1 and 8 can be jumpered or not when changing IC's in that madbean roadrage PDF. That last layout that you posted has pins 8 and 1 connected, so you wouldn't want to use that layout without modification.

Hard to tell what exactly is going on with the ring connection in the layout you posted without the schematic to look at.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 05, 2015, 11:18:05 AM
nothing useful to add, except hello fom across the ditch, kiwi.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: antonis on May 05, 2015, 11:30:04 AM
Quote from: duck_arse on May 05, 2015, 11:18:05 AM
nothing useful to add...

You could add that Sleeve should be connected to GND...

(or maybe R.G. Keen had something else in his mind..  ???)
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 05, 2015, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: antonis on May 05, 2015, 11:30:04 AM
Quote from: duck_arse on May 05, 2015, 11:18:05 AM
nothing useful to add...

You could add that Sleeve should be connected to GND...

(or maybe R.G. Keen had something else in his mind..  ???)

orrl right, I'll add that I can't see any posted images there might be in this thread. and sleeve etc.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: tubegeek on May 05, 2015, 12:58:32 PM
Very common trick in the world of stompbox gizmos: using a Tip - Ring - Sleeve (TRS) input jack as a power switch.

Battery negative: goes to Ring of jack.
Ground: goes to Sleeve of jack.

Now:

Plug a Tip-Sleeve (TS) plug (found on the typical guitar cable) into the jack: the Sleeve of the TS plug will make contact with both the Ring and Sleeve contacts inside the TRS jack, connecting them together. Battery negative is thus connected to ground, and the device turns on. Remove the plug and it turns off, because then the battery only has one connection, at the positive end. No current flows, saving your battery power when you are not using the gizmo.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: mth5044 on May 05, 2015, 01:16:17 PM
So in the layout posted above, inserting a plug turns on the transistor and allows for 9V to flow into the bipolar power circuit? Makes sense I guess!
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: antonis on May 06, 2015, 09:03:45 AM
Quote from: mth5044 on May 05, 2015, 01:16:17 PM
So in the layout posted above, inserting a plug turns on the transistor and allows for 9V to flow into the bipolar power circuit? Makes sense I guess!

Not exactly...

In the layout posted above, R1 & R2 form a voltage divider for Q1 base bias... Left side of R2 needs to have a GND connection (or at any other Voltage level lower than 9V..) for the divider to be effective...

Inserting the guitar cord plug short-circuits the Ring and Sleeve BUT if Sleeve isn't connected anywhere you can't make the circuit active...
(that's why I previously wrote that Sleeve HAS to be connected to GND..)
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 06, 2015, 10:36:51 AM
^ because its base is held to +V by the 1k resistor, the ring-connected 6k8 needs to be pulled to ground by shorting on a tip/sleeve plug, to turn on the PNP transistor, which then series-passes the +9V to the board, just as antonis told me I should say.

so the input sleeve MUST have a ground wire for the circuit to pass volts. a circuit diagram makes all this prattle so much easier.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: antonis on May 06, 2015, 11:35:52 AM
Quote from: duck_arse on May 06, 2015, 10:36:51 AM
the PNP transistor

So, you've guessed from the layout that Q1 is a PNP (E-B-C) BJT... :icon_biggrin:

Any chance to be a NPN (C-B-E) type..? :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 06, 2015, 11:45:24 AM
I think it was shakespeare said "a 3906 is a 3906 is a 3906, and there's nothing quite as pretty as 2N3906 in the morning". those american transistors have funny pinouts, no?
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: antonis on May 06, 2015, 12:09:04 PM
I thought that Shakespeare said " a BC116 is a BC237 is a BC338 and there's nothing quite as pretty as BC547 in the morning " and disentangled from any pinout setting, yes?
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: KiwiDoc on May 06, 2015, 08:37:46 PM
Quote from: duck_arse on May 05, 2015, 11:18:05 AM
nothing useful to add, except hello fom across the ditch, kiwi.
G'day!
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 07, 2015, 11:15:48 AM
well said, cobber. also, was it plato that said "I think that I shall never see a BC639 that hasn't had its legs twisted to fit".

is any of this useful, Kiwi?
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: mth5044 on May 07, 2015, 05:49:20 PM
You guys are weird.  :-*




Now get off my lawn.
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: KiwiDoc on May 08, 2015, 06:55:02 PM
Wow, great info!

So...I powered up the circuit for the first.
What I get is a fair bit of buzz, the guitar signal is amplified quite cleanly but the is little to no reverb added. When I tap the tank there is huge lush springy crashes etc but doesn't seem to be getting driven by the guitar signal. The bypass works fine.
Any thoughts ?
This is the layout
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sc_reverb_lo3.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 09, 2015, 10:59:44 AM
what? are we working on a circuit? I thought antonis and I were around for some philosophy and poetry on some guy's lawn.

your next two steps ....

http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: KiwiDoc on May 10, 2015, 04:59:11 AM
Here is a video of this issue...
No, I have 150ohm now.

So I have rewired the board on vero board to rule out my shonky jumpers being an issue, checked my power supply...The charge pump is working great. Getting +9 and -9 v where I should.

But still have little to no reverb. True bypass works, the mix and dwell pots seem to amplify signal more than anything else. There is definate reverb spring action when I tap the tank,
The tank is 150 ohm input 1500 output impedence. This should be well suited to op amp powered reverb circuit as far as I can tell.

here is a YouTube of it all.

http://youtu.be/nRyvI-IHMzE

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Bipolar power...and hello!
Post by: duck_arse on May 11, 2015, 12:00:17 PM
ignore this, just saw the other thread.